In Australia - Moira Deeming defamation trial now on

[TheSandgroper]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-17/moira-deeming-john-pesutto-defamation-trial-day-two/104360100

This is from our very TRA ABC. Please note the comment from “Mr Southwick, a Jewish MP re Angie Jones’ tweet”. Well, Angie Jones is as Jewish as they come but they don’t say that.

Also, for, those who don’t know, see Angie on m.youtube.com/@TERFTalkDownUnder, though she hasn’t posted for a while. Some really good interviews.

It doesn’t help me unfortunately.

Can you please be specific about the views she has that you feel are too extreme for the Liberal Party? Plus can you list where the Liberal Party has stated that they view these opinions as too extreme.

Also what is the purpose in stating this? When it has nothing to do with the trial as far as I can tell?

I reckon if this was the case, then Moira would have a separate case to take to court.

So, I am keen to see exactly whose opinion this accusation is based on. And whether it is even an Australian political analysis or whether it has been said by someone who knows jack shit about the Liberal party but wanted to add another aspect to bully Moira over.

I look forward to seeing who has said it and where.

It's weird, when this was used to apparently refute it didn't my point that Ms Deeming has been treated this way and (arguably - it's the case being made) defamed due to her attending and helping organise this women's rights rally.

Started reading this thread, my hopes were raised, then cruelly dashed barely two minutes later.

And by Liberal Party, I mean the Federal party not just the Victorian branch. The Australian executive level of the Liberal Party.

You can listen directly to the Liberal Party explaining their problem here
https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/services/access-to-files-and-transcripts/online-files/deeming-v-pesutto

The audio files of the meeting have been uploaded. Better to hear "from the horses mouth" than from sources one is suspicious of.

And this is the Federal branch of the Liberal Party? Not the Victorian branch.

There is a difference. And the difference is important here.

Well don't listen if you are not interested. Like I said, hearing it directly is better than interpretation

So this is the meeting with Pesutto and not notification or comment from the national branch of the Liberal Party?

Ok. I would like Messinabloom to confirm that this is their source of information as well.

Because action by the state level leadership who has been shown to have poor judgement, is a whole different story to federal level executives declaring that Moira Deeming was too extreme to be an elected member of the Liberal Party. And this significant accusation that needs to be verified.

I doubt it is. I'm not Australian and I think mess might be. What I've noticed today is its pretty hard to get info cos of pay walls. But the meeting sets out their logic quite clearly and talks about some other events and wider political context. I found it interesting to listen to from a "behind the scenes" perspective

Well, I am sure that if Messinabloom is Australian they will link us all up to their source.

I look forward to reading / watching it. If I remember correctly the Federal level of the Liberal Party did not support Pesutto’s action initially. So if this has also changed, then that is a significant point to know as well.

Yes that's how I remember it too Helle.

I do wish that I could watch this case. Moira’s legal team is supervised by Patrick George who has written the textbook for Australian defamation law. I doubt that they would have recommended that she proceed to trial if they didn’t feel she had a good chance of winning.

Oooh that’s good news. I am not politically aligned with Deeming, and I don’t think Pesutto is a bad option as leader, but I’d like her to win this.

@Helleofabore

Apologies that I didn't reply earlier - I had some life stuff going on. In any case, you can see all you need on Moira's Twitter feed, and the below article from The Financial Review describes Peter Dutton's reaction and instructions to Pesutto and the subsequent discussion re: whether Deeming should be ousted. It is more a Victorian branch decision informed by a Federal hint.

www.afr.com/politics/nazis-this-time-what-next-leader-s-text-about-moira-deeming-20240916-p5kat8

Mess, your link directly contradicts your earlier point.

Can you cut and paste which line in particular you are referring to, to clarify your point that it is her 'views outside the party' that are the issue?

Thanks.

You yesterday made the statement “Those are some of the reasons Deeming was 'on the edge', so to speak. She was already operating barely within the confines of her party rules.”

So, you have made the assessment that Moira Deeming’s views are too extreme / ‘on the edge’ , for the Liberal Party based on your own assumption from looking at her Twitter feed?

You won’t point out the specific issues she is too extreme / ‘on the edge’ on. The article only refers to her opinion on women’s rights.

Is that the only issue where you believe she is too extreme / ‘on the edge’ in her opinions to be part of the Liberal Party?

The article you posted does not say that the federal party executive thought that Deeming was too extreme to be a sitting MP member of the Liberal Party. It confirmed though what I pointed out, that the federal level did not support Pesutto’s actions. It also pointed out there is significant tensions between the Victorian Party and the federal executive. It also mentioned other Liberal MPs who offered their support to her.

You have made the point that Dutton wanted Moira Deeming expelled as per the ‘hint’ in the article. I understood that the federal branch wanted Pesutto to stop the negative press at a time they needed to win a crucial by election.

There is a significant difference between your accusation that she is too ‘extreme’ and Peter Dutton wanting to stop the negative impact of Pesutto’s statements about Moira Deeming.

Do you, personally, believe that being critical of and not support the belief that gender identity should be prioritised at all times above a person’s sex and the belief that affirming only medical treatments for those under 18 is an extreme belief?

@AlisonDonut

Mess, your link directly contradicts your earlier point.

Can you cut and paste which line in particular you are referring to, to clarify your point that it is her 'views outside the party' that are the issue?

The Fin Review, unfortunately, won't allow me back. However, going back to one of the documents on the court record is illustrative - particularly pages 2 and 6 (third column).

@Helleofabore

There is a significant difference between your accusation that she is too ‘extreme’ and Peter Dutton wanting to stop the negative impact of Pesutto’s statements about Moira Deeming.

Do you, personally, believe that being critical of and not support the belief that gender identity should be prioritised at all times above a person’s sex and the belief that affirming only medical treatments for those under 18 is an extreme belief?

No, I do not.

The views I am talking about relate to specific political policies. Deeming's views (IMO, and perhaps Dutton's) were starting to tip out of the Liberal party's threshold and into, say, One Nation territory. Personally, I believe the Nazi slurs against Deeming were absolutely unwarranted.

I'm really not sure why you are having an issue with this. Is it simply because I'm saying it?

Thank you for confirming that it is your opinion that she is too extreme, or becoming too extreme for the federal level of the party. I had thought that I had missed something significant that had been reported.

If she had been considered by Dutton as too extreme for the party in general and it had been handled in this way, eg being expelled using Pesutto’s accusations as an excuse, I would have thought that she would have another case. Particularly if the ‘too extreme’ was only around the issues where specific needs of female people based on sex should be prioritised above a male person’s gender identity and the need to have the focus being on evidence based medical treatment pathways for children.

However, you have confirmed that it is just your own opinion that she is ‘on the edge’ of Liberal Party. So, thank you for clarifying.

Can you maybe cut and paste the points that you are referring to?

You say one of the pages then mention two of the pages. And a column. Of a random court document which you haven't referenced.

It feels like a wild goose chase here.

@AlisonDonut

You say one of the pages then mention two of the pages. And a column. Of a random court document which you haven't referenced.

It feels like a wild goose chase here.

No need for rudeness - I simply forgot to add the link. I don't say one of the pages, BTW. It isn't a random document, but a summary of 'Points of Difference' in the 19 March meeting. It is set in tabular format, so I referred you specifically to column 3.

https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/data/assets/pdfffile/0013/120613/Exhibit-MFI-R1-21-August-2024.pdf

Can you cut and paste the words that you are actually referring to?

It is confusing because there is the printed numbering on the pdf and there is the pdf auto generated numbering.

What is also clear is that despite the assertions of the team that the meeting was only about the Nazi presence, the next page goes into discussion about someone on the team saying maybe if Moira wanted to continue to focus on women’s and girl’s sexed based rights, she might be better leaving the party to be an Independent MP. And discussing her first speech and her IWD speech. Both were about women and girl’s rights if I remember correctly.

This seems rather contradictory.