"Trump is the only hope for the world. I hope Americans can see this."

[crimplepop]

KJK going off on one again. Can you see it yet?

Waste of time? Why is that?

This thread concerns KJK and is about her support of Trump.

Clearly women who believe that women are adult human females are going to have a point of difference with the democrats who believe that woman = anyone who identifies as.

All I’m pointing out is that perhaps Trump/ KJK would have less traction if the democrats addressed this issue with people who are concerned about their/the democrats definition of woman including men and the impact of gender ideology on children.

Some people don’t think that this should be discussed on this thread and that this thread is solely to ‘scrutinise’ KJK.

I think it’s very relevant to a discussion.

So what is it that makes me a massive bellend exactly?

what makes my argument incoherent or this discussion a waste of time?

Plenty of people who believe women=adult human female would never vote for a man who boasts about "grabbing women by the pussy", or countenance endorsing such a man.

You are missing my point, perhaps deliberately.

Or do you think ‘Trump bad’ is a valid excuse for anti woman policies in the Western World? We’re not as bad as Afghanistan either but it doesn’t mean that the discussion shouldn’t be had about the impact of gender on women and children.

Come on! Women deserve better than that. Otherwise the democrats can simply ride on the ‘we are not as bad as Trump coat tails over any issue’. Now that’s a pretty undemocratic portion. Even the democrats should be answerable for harmful political beliefs!

No, I think "Trump bad" is a reason womens rights campaigners shouldn't actively endorse him

As I keep saying. You seem very keen to shift the debate to more familiar ground. As I said upthread (and delphinium had evidence to support) I don't think many people at all are voting for Trump as "the lesser of two evils" on gender. In fact he's said very little about what he is going to do on gender.

Women 100% deserve better than Trump, if you can't acknowledge why posters have concerns about KJK supporting him you are going to get nowhere on this thread.

I have acknowledged that, I even said unthread that if I had the ability to vote I would vote democrat.

However it is very lazy to only scrutinise one side of an argument.

The democrats should be open to scrutiny to. Put bluntly KJK wouldn’t have a platform to criticise the democrats on their belief that women are who they say they are if that wasn’t the harmful to women nonsense that it is and this thread wouldn’t exist on FWR.

That might be inconvenient for you but it’s the truth.

I think KJK is an influencer who would have found another movement to be influential in..and if you want to discuss the Democrats, feel free to start another thread. It is a derail to discuss the Democrats on this one.

I ignore MN for a few days and this has got spicy hasn't it?

Maybe she would have but you’re speculating.

Why don’t you think the democrats are answerable to their own anti woman ideological beliefs? Why don’t you think this is relevant for this discussion when it most clearly is 🤔?

Surely you’re not so politically blinkered that you can’t see that actions happen as a result of events that predate them and that it’s important to always consider events in their context.

Unless, of course you’re not really all that bothered about the left seeing women as an identity that men can simply opt into. Which of course is an opinion you’re perfectly entitled to, just not one I agree with.

To quote the OP, MIA of course, "can you see it yet?"

Personally i believe everyone should be answerable to any deplorable views they have. Whether i agree with them on another point or not. I don't care if someone is 'on my side' about one issue if they are then spouting hatred and bigotry, they are not 'on my side'. They can get in the bin.

So yes, the Democrats can be rightfully spoken about for any anti-women laws they are pushing, much like Trump/GOP can. The issue comes from the whole "lesser of 2 evils" thing which in this case, the Democrats are. Women is America need access to their healthcare. Yes people would prefer to not compromise on their other beliefs to ensure that, i agree. But in the grand scheme of things, one will directly affect and harm women sooner and harder than the other.

Not to mention there will never be a party that aligns with anyone 100% - but especially not in places such as the US or the UK where it is a 2 horse race.

@Alwaystired94 agree.

what I object to is failing to view the whole picture. it’s politically lazy.

And my personal belief is that it’s possible to condemn Trump, say you don’t agree with KJK on this whilst still engaging in a conversation about how the democrats are leaving an open goal and how to engage them in conversations about harms done to women, as the mother of a daughter who aspires to professional sport, what the democrats have done to destroy that is something I couldn’t let go if I lived there.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I would like to keep this conversation going respectfully which is almost impossible when you ask questions based on your assumptions about what I think.

Well said 👏

@lifeturnsonadime I apologise for calling you a massive bellend actually,but was uncalled for. I'm in such a bad mood, for reasons unrelated and I find your communication style infuriating, but there is no need for name calling is there 💐

Exactly. Very worrying. Just as the UK had the Cass review, too, which you would think opened some eyes.

At least in the UK no-one is talking about taking away access to healthcare.

Thanks for the apology.

Sadly I think they were quite robust in response to the Case Review

It's a odd one as I'd say media there can be quite blunt about all this stuff. Labor are in now, maybe it will swing again if they get voted out. NZ has seen some changes

They did try. But I think most of the relevant MPs got booted at the last GE thankfully

I haven’t put words into your mouth.

What I have done is speculate about your reasons for not wanting to discuss the whole picture, that speculation is based on your posts on several threads where you never want to discuss the responsibility of the left, whether that be Labour here or the democrats in the US when it comes to how some feei about an ideology held by the left that sees some men as women.

it’s a bit rich that you can speculate about KJKs intentions based on her actions but your intentions can’t be speculated about. But hey ho! You and I are never going to agree I don’t think🤔

Cass review...

Yes, well you don't need to "speculate" because I'm here having an open conversation and answering questions. I'm also not a politician or influencer so trying to draw any kind of parallel between me discussing KJK on a thread about her, and you speculating on my intentions is incorrect. Just ask me.

I've discussed "the left" loads of times, as you know because we've been on threads together so that's a completely unrealistic "speculation" on your part.

Yes. Even Tories realise that a great many of their voters rely utterly upon the NHS and will protest heavily at its removal or reform into a US system (why a US system? The rest of Europe has insurance based systems which are free at the point of access, with premiums and payouts regulated by legislation - oh, that's why, still no profit for their friends).

What is your point? You seem to have none at all.

But you never think that the left should be responsible for its ideology.

I find that interesting. Your focus is always on women who highlight the failures of the left being wrong .

So in what way is my speculation unrealistic? You say you believe that women are adult human females then refuse to acknowledge the responsibility of the left to women wrt that.

Your posts are pretty much consistently on the theme of trying to portray women who think that that these issues need to be talked about are right wing.