"Trump is the only hope for the world. I hope Americans can see this."

[crimplepop]

KJK going off on one again. Can you see it yet?

People being concerned does not necessarily equate to reality. He played on people's fears imo. Part of why I dislike him.

The point I'm making is that the reason for there being a thread about it is that women were concerned about it happening to them for their gender critical beliefs, rightly or wrongly.

It's legal throughout the entire pregnancy in Canada.
There are surely other countries. I just can't be arsed to check.
Perhaps you mean medical regulations regarding abortion rather than the law. It's against medical regulations after 23 weeks, simply because of the dangers to the woman, but will be done in cases of medical necessity.

This sums it up, really. But it seems some others on this board have no issue with it.

😆

Indeed. It's flabbergasting that anyone who posts in a feminist chat would try something like that.

No one has said you're all right wing by association except you.

Except I didn’t say that did I? I didn’t say anyone is right wing by association, what I said is people saying that is a common tactic on threads like these. What do you think the intention of the OP is then?

You have aligned critics of KJK's tweet with TRAs.

Shall I quote the part where I deliberately say the opposite of this?

I haven’t attempted to paint posters who disagree with her about Trump as TRAs. That’s pretty hard to do given I disagree with her about Trump and I am not a TRA, and I know plenty of posters who aren’t TRAs have also expressed clearly that they disagree with her about Trump.

What I have said, is that it’s an important tactic of TRAs to paint anyone who shows any association with people like KJK who opposes their ideology to be also of the same opinions as her, to try and lessen the impact of their opposition to their ideology. Look at the post above yours. A brand new poster, first post on MN, bringing in KJK’s apparent association with the Heritage Foundation. Why? Because it’s important to plop stuff like that on this entire forum as a “look who your supporting” trend.

Eh, I'm American. I put KJK in the same category as my friends, coworkers and family members who will vote Trump. I won't vote for him because they think I should. I won't cut them out of my life either.

No, the state legislatures are the cause of state laws. People in every state are free to elect and lobby for the laws they want.

I sometimes think there is a lot of misunderstanding in the UK about how laws in the US work.

You might as well say the British Parliament is the cause of laws made in Scotland because they recognize that Scotland has jurisdiction to legislate in certain areas.

Once the SC started making political judgements - and Roe v Wade was the result of a politically stacked SC - it was pretty much inevitable you would see that carry on when the composition of the court changed. And Roe v Wade was never seen as a very slam dunk legal argument either, on the contrary, plenty of people even who wanted it were worried about its legal basis.

But all that did was place the responsibility for legislating on states. It said nothing about what sort of legislation they should have. It's still part of a democratic political process.

@cantreallyno

I don't understand how people think that the 'corrupt msm' operate in favour of democrats/socialist or left wing politics. the MSM is overwhelmingly owned by conservative organisation aren't they?

Indeed they are. NewsCorp (Murdoch) has tentacles across the globe, and he shifts public opinion at a whim. He absolutely does influence editorial and elects Presidents.

Okay, you are baffled by this, baffled by that and you prefer Trump. Noted, and I do find there is symmetry to that.
I certainly cannot argue that he isn't the right candidate for you.

There are cases where women do things like that, just like there are cases where women kill newborn infants.

Many people think both are equally wrong, that you are killing a baby, there is no fundamental difference.

So, yes, they believe these things should be illegal. I am presuming you understand why people think killing a newborn infant under any circumstances should be something that could be dealt with by the law, or do you think we should just shrug and say, oh well, she must have had a good reason?

Rarity really isn't relevant and frankly it's bizarre to suggest it is. Serial killers who eat brains are vanishingly rare as well but we don't ignore it because of that.

CAnada has a total lack of law because the law that existed was struck down, and no political party was ever willing to take the controversy that would come from creating new legislation.

It's not a positive law in the sense that is what was decided was appropriate and legislation crafted to support that.

There is a tendency for activists to speak as if it was a constitutional imperative and anything else is there for non-constitutional and would be a rights violation, but that wasn't the view of most of the judges who struck down the older law - all but one expected new, better legislation would appear soon after that.

@TempestTost

*There are cases where women do things like that, just like there are cases where women kill newborn infants.

Many people think both are equally wrong, that you are killing a baby, there is no fundamental difference.

So, yes, they believe these things should be illegal. I am presuming you understand why people think killing a newborn infant under any circumstances should be something that could be dealt with by the law, or do you think we should just shrug and say, oh well, she must have had a good reason?

Rarity really isn't relevant and frankly it's bizarre to suggest it is. Serial killers who eat brains are vanishingly rare as well but we don't ignore it because of that.*

You can't abort a full-term foetus. You 'give birth'. Also, presumably in these cases, it isn't done alone - a doctor is present. Do you really believe a doctor would actually deliver and then kill a healthy infant? No. Sometimes, of course, a mother does give birth alone and then leave the newborn; thankfully, that doesn't occur often.

Rarity is very relevant. Think about the circumstances where in the late stages of a pregnancy termination would be considered. Think about the parents' heartache involved. Consider going through labour to deliver a baby you know will be stillborn or will have no brain or brainstem whatsoever. These aren't common, but do happen. It isn't nearing the end of pregnancy and thinking, 'No, I'd rather not, let's make an appointment,' like you need your nails varnished.

Apologies, bolding fail there.

@KJKsEgo what do you mean by 'her pro trans husband'?

I'm sorry, yes, there are cases where abortions take place alone, or with someone who is not actually a doctor at all, or with a doctor who is, for some reason, willing to do such a thing for reasons that aren't what we'd think of as medically necessary or justified.

You are aware that there are people who attempt to kill infants? Mothers, or people who bury them in boxes, there are plenty of horrific stories like this even if it is uncommon. There are people in the world who are horrible criminals who do unbelievably bad stuff, including for money, and including to children and infants.

There was a horrific case of a doctor and his staff in the US a few years ago who ran an abortion clinic. It was not only performing the most horrible kinds of procedures, it was doing them unsafely and other very weird gross stuff. Now - they were in the end caught and reported because of the lack of sanitation and dangerous practice, as well as breaking the law and killing babies even after birth - but it's not unthinkable that a clinic with the same lack of ethical standards could operate in a medically safe way. That's not just one person, it was the doctor, his wife, and a number of staff that he employed.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to believe, we see monstrous acts in the news with some regularity.

We don't see people arguing that cannibalism shouldn't be illegal because it rarely happens, or someone might be in a plane crash in the Antarctic where it is the only way to survive and also quite harrowing for the person engaging in it.

It's like, because you can put yourself in the shoes of a sympathetic case, you can't imagine that there are people who might not fit that profile.

It's a bit like an inversion of some of the TRA thinking, or "ally" thinking, where there is no ability to imagine that poor trans women might not all be nice and sympathetic, or have good motives, and why there might be a reason to have restrictions on some things.

Someone upthread mentioned KJK's "flying monkeys" and I had to laugh, because that's a typical inversion of reality. I can vote in the US too, and am tempted to vote Trump just to cancel out her vote for the odious Harris. I won't – almost physically can't – but am forever reminded that people didn't learn from Brexit. There are many reasons perfectly sane people are voting for him. I'm not getting into it here because honestly, talking US politics on FWR is a waste of time (though good for those who give it a go!).

@NotBadConsidering

You are aware that there are people who attempt to kill infants? Mothers, or people who bury them in boxes, there are plenty of horrific stories like this even if it is uncommon. There are people in the world who are horrible criminals who do unbelievably bad stuff, including for money, and including to children and infants.
Didn't I say bring up mothers that give birth and then abandon the infants? So yes, I am aware.

There was a horrific case of a doctor and his staff in the US a few years ago who ran an abortion clinic. It was not only performing the most horrible kinds of procedures, it was doing them unsafely and other very weird gross stuff. Now - they were in the end caught and reported because of the lack of sanitation and dangerous practice, as well as breaking the law and killing babies even after birth - but it's not unthinkable that a clinic with the same lack of ethical standards could operate in a medically safe way. That's not just one person, it was the doctor, his wife, and a number of staff that he employed.
This sounds suspiciously like it fits in the 'rare' category.*
*
I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to believe, we see monstrous acts in the news with some regularity.
Do we? Monstrous acts like the above? I haven't.

TBH, with all the "unbelievably bad" and "horrible criminals" rhetoric, you are sounding like someone familiar.

Not a "positive" law? It's no law at all. That was my point. I was correcting a misconception that there is no country without laws about term limits.

You're wrong about the political parties not addressing it simply to avoid controversy. That's only the Tories, because the other two major parties are fine with it the way it is. Even the Tories haven't shown much interest in the subject. The occasional backbencher makes a motion and is pretty much ignored.
The forced birth movement in Canada does not have the political clout it has in the States by a long shot.

@NotBadConsidering

Can’t anyone come up with a new angle on it at least, you make it interesting? Or is everyone lacking in imagination as well as being weak minded enough to get triggered by every right wing thing she tweets? Come on, show some creativity!

Would you like us to phrase it in haiku to make it more interesting for you?

Why have you quoted me here? I didn’t say any of that.

Yes that would be very interesting thank you. While you’re composing it, have a read back through this old thread and see if you can see anything new added here on this new thread compared to that one:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5086296-kjk-supports-trump?page=1

Limericks are more fun.

Why moan, complain, whine and mope
Since Trump is the great white "hope?"
But I will, if I may
Advise KJK
To edit, she's misspelled grope.