Imane Khelif

[LHayday]

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

The vast majority of women support sex testing ( through a cheek swab for example) for all competitors entering the female category, 82% endorsed this and 8% said they were neutral but the IOC ignored this.

However, I still think it is reasonable to selectively test if suspicions are raised as in this case.

Why don't you think women deserve their own competition?

If you want to take the word of a person who can't even agree with his team whether they tested the chromosomes or testosterones of a person, has overseen match fixing at previous Olympics, and who is happy to call other people sodomites that's up to you.

He's not the only one saying it. He's the president of the IBA. He didn't do the tests himself.

I think you'd have to gain agreement on a suitable test and then all athletes would have to participate in this

Great, this is what 81% of female athletes asked for.

rather than the arbitrary and targeted nature of the IBA tests.

Targeted, yes, but not arbitrary: competitors and their teams had raised concerns about these particular individuals.

If you want to look at sex category you need to introduce a test that everyone undertakes prior to competition, not on an arbitrary and targeted basis.

Firstly, have no issue with testing everyone prior to competition. Secondly, I think it's fine to test people when concerns are raised, as they were here.

And you will be called a cheat if valid concerns are raised and you do nothing about it.

I don't agree that that's fair.

That's sounds a bit like the Mumsnet thread where someone posted about a supposed transgender woman winner of an amateur UK race, resulting in mass harassment of this woman who was a mother of 3.

The poster then had to start another thread with a grovelling apology and some of the harassing posters also sheepishly offered their own apologies. But the damage was done, and Mumsnet are lucky if they were not sued over that, truly FWR at its vilest. Who knows, Imane well have a case against Mumsnet as well if this turns into a similar story.

You can't leave these issues up to 'concerns'; that's potentially harassing and certainly disruptive to an athlete's preparation ( if you are a female athlete how much would you like it if someone targeted you demanding you, and you alone attended sex testing?)

There would have to be a consistent, documented protocol that all athletes were subject to.

Sorry that sounds like "look a squirrel".

Were the concerns about IK valid or not or is there doubt he could be a mother of three?

Someone got something on a board without evidence or failed tests, wrong, cannot be compared to a bloke who had failed 2 independent tests.

These aren't just concerns. J'accuse! There is negligence in the air.

Quite.

There would have to be a consistent, documented protocol that all athletes were subject to.

Isn't that the cheek swabbing that 81% of female athletes were keen to keep, but was removed from the Olympics regulations regardless?

I'm not sure what the story of the runner with 3 children has to do with the thread or why it means we shouldn't be asking for clarification as to why an XY athlete who has gone through male puberty is competing in a contact sport against female people?

Well you don't understand what fair is. And you certainly don't understand what safe is.

So whatever else you say rather misses the point amongst all the bales lying about the field ready to make scarecrows.

Just because some babies need an ultrasound and/or a blood test rather than a cursory glance doesn’t mean their sex isn’t identifiable. I’m surprised you don’t understand this when you’ve claimed upthread to work with kids with chromosomal abnormalities (although perhaps you are talking about non DSDs, ie chromosomal abnormalities that affect non sex chromosomes? Which obvs are irrelevant to sport sex).

if Semenya or Khelif were born in the USA or the UK (or any other country with free or subsidised access to quality medical care) they wouldn’t have been raised as girls because babies with ambiguous primary sex organs are followed up to find the reason for that ambiguity.

Crikey, we can tell the genetic sex of the baby via CVS halfway through mum’s pregnancy, and in IVF, as an embryo.

CAIS babies are raised as girls because their diagnosis comes as teenagers but they could still have their genetic sex identified at birth if there were a reason to sequence their DNA.

Medicine will become largely DNA based in the next few decades anyway and anyone fortunate enough to access state of the art medicine will have their genome sequenced and kept on file.

Which will be nice for DSD kids, because they won’t be erroneously recorded as the opposite sex.

I don't agree that that's fair.

Fine, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Why do you think it could be fair for one country to compel another country to have their athlete to be sex-tested at their say-so?

Do you not see how this could be used to undermine another athlete, unsettle them, disrupt their training and put them at a competitive disadvantage?

Why would you not want a uniform , consistent policy for all?

They didn't compel anyone. They reported their concerns to the IBA, and the athletes were tested. Twice.

Happy to rubber stamp people as eligible via testing before they fight any other women though.

Great - something we can all agree on: sex testing for all competitors, anything with a Y in it and sorry, but you're in the wrong place, this is the women's competition.
Why didn't the IOC do that, it would have saved a lot of heartache for a lot of boxers in Paris.

People who want to protect the female category want sex testing for everyone.

Gosh, you people are getting incredibly desperate now aren't you? Don't you think this reach is making you look a little silly? By the way, a lot of the women you're talking to on here are themselves gay. You appear to be attempting to make accusations trying to link us with homophobia - why is that exactly?

Anyway. Do point out for us please where the sports journalist in question has made a "sodomite" reference in his report? Where is the "sodomite" reference given in the report by the two independently accredited labs in their reports to the IBA seen by this journalist?

Or indeed what a "fair point" is.

What an idiot.

Saw an article today that Imane has been given an extremely feminine makeover, presumably as "evidence" that they are female.

I can't stand Trump. If asked, I expect he would say the sky is blue. I, too, would say the sky is blue. Just because you both consider some things to be the same it does not mean you support the other person or agree with all their views.

FWR went on and on and on about how ridiculous it was to say "sex assigned at birth" and that every baby's sex can correctly be identified and that was fundamental and not in question

now thats a lie…

a lot of your posts seem to be projection

The company you keep includes multiple men who threaten women with violence, rape and death for daring to say no to them or having opinions about their own lives and own current legal rights, and who campaign to get women hounded and sacked from their jobs for even SPEAKING about that. You are also clearly heavily associated with "campaigners" who use well-known propaganda tactics and have so little care for the truth or integrity their entire method of "activism" consists of those tactics and of telling lies, largely because their "arguments" are based on sand and lack an evidence base.

All of which says quite a lot about the sort of person you are. Sorry, were you trying to imply you had some kind of moral high ground? Bit of a shame you're dealing with women smarter than you who've seen all these tactics before, isn it? But thanks for the demo, I'm sure anyone new to these threads will find it instructive.

If that's the case why wasn't those findings held up? Why did the IOC discard their findings?
What tests did the IOC carry out on Imane to determine her sex, did they look at her medical records?

Funny that, isn't it? And just how very common the tactic of projection seems to be in this supposed "civil rights social justice" movement.

Almost like it's not based on anything genuine and instead seems to involve a striking number of "campaigners" who appear to have narcissistic or other dark triad personality disorders.