Imane Khelif

[LHayday]

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

Kremlev, who is the president of the IBA (whose evidence this thread is relying on) called Bach, the president of the IOC, a sodomite...on more than one occasion, including the recent press conference.

If you're fine with that, good for you.

I myself am a gay woman, which is fairly well known here now I believe. I don't find FWR lesbian friendly in the slightest to be honest. I've watched 'lesbian nana' topping the board for most posts despite all the challenges that women face in the world and which you think FWR might be more interested in posting about.

I've watched all the threads moaning about rainbows and pride matches and giving advice on how to more successfully deface rainbow flags. I've pointed out to moderators that this is actually a criminal activity and asked for a post to be removed on the basis that it advised others on how to commit crime. Mumsnet moderators simply told me they would not remove it as that was freedom of speech.

I've watched posters big up Posie Parker / Kellie Jay Keen when she wants to remove lesbian partners from birth certificates and posters advocate against lesbians receiving fertility treatment.

So no. I don't find FWR lesbian friendly at all.

What tests did the IOC carry out on Imane to determine her sex, did they look at her medical records?

they looked at the passport….

The IOC based it on Khelif's passport.

They did not carry out further medical tests. They said they "don't want to go back to sex testing.".

So I'd suggest they ignored those findings because of ideological pressure from activists not connected with DSDs but who want to ensure self-ID for males into women's sports. It certainly wasn't anything to do with the wishes of the majority of female athletes who want to bring the cheek swab back.

Tell us, why is it that in the same games you had female athletes banned for being a banana's-weight over the strict weight limits because of drinking too much water, and another for wearing a message about supporting women's rights in her home country (unrelated to this issue) but ensuring fairness in terms of sex can be handwaved away? Doesn't that strike you as strange?

So yet more straw manning and false accusations tactics then. You do know that we're not a hive mind here, don't you? Plenty of women here are left-leaning and lesbians. i really couldn't give a shit if you personally prefer the misogynistic version.

And I note you have failed to make any reference to the validity of the testing. Or pretty much anything anyone else here has asked you. Bit strange to continue with your propagandist tactics really, almost as if you don't have any actual arguments which is why you keep on being disingenuous. As I say, it's highly instructive for those reading. And given your "associations" are violently misogynistic men who don't like women having rights or boundaries and are often deeply homophobic, you're really not in a position of moral authority here. Any reason why you keep projecting? Are you lacking any actual arguments, perhaps?

Once again, the IBA does not carry out testing itself, as has been pointed out to you. Both labs are independently accredited, nothing to do with the IBA. So once again, as you have consistently failed to answer the question put to you, please do point out where the journalist Alan Abrahamson has made any kind of "sodomite" reference in his report on what he has seen? And please do point out where the two independently accredited labs made any reference whatsoever to "sodomites" in their testing reports to the IBA, as reported by this journalist?

Over 80% of female athletes said they want sex testing for all athletes entered in the women's category. Isn't that a uniform, consistent policy for all?

Why do you object to this?

I think sex testing everyone who wants to compete in the female category is absolutely the way forward.

Anyone who refuses can compete in the Open category instead (seeing as the Men’s category isn’t a protected category it’s easy to just rename it to Open (or Males/Open if the chaps feel a bit erased by a total renaming).

Jeezo, reading comprehension score nil points for you tonight eh. 😂

I have commented on the validity of the testing as far as it is possible, given that there is no official release of the tests.

Go back and read my posts.

I don't object to this in principle. It is a question of achieving fair tests that people can come to a consensus on as far as possible.

I have read your many tedious posts. My reading comprehension, and that of everyone else on this board, is not lacking.

None of your witterings have been able to answer the questions put to you directly. They are full of noticeable straw man arguments and false accusations. Your consistent failure to be able to answer the points directly without resorting to such tactics is nothing to do with a failure in comprehension skills on our part. Perhaps you need to learn to formulate your written arguments better. They are currently proving extremely weak.

O wow.

That really hurts.

I will go to a corner and think seriously about what I have done.

🤣

It seems IBA can't release the test results; IK and Lin's camps could but it doesn't seem that they have.

I see that other posters answered this question.

Now that you've, presumably, read those articles you were offered and reappraised the available evidence - have you changed your mind?

It's very unlikely there will be any "official" release of the test results. That's not how it works. Even in Caster Semenya's case, his DSD was reported not directly through release of the test results, but via a CAS ruling that talked about them.

What we do have for Khelif and Lin is the results were leaked to a reputable journalist, who reported on them. Why is that not sufficient evidence for you?

suggestionsplease1
Kremlev, who is the president of the IBA (whose evidence this thread is relying on) called Bach, the president of the IOC, a sodomite...on more than one occasion, including the recent press conference.
If you're fine with that, good for you.

This thread is not 'relying on' IBA evidence, and I doubt if anyone here would approve of calling anyone a 'sodomite'.

[I hope Kremlev at least got the spelling right]
It's a lot more nuanced than IOC bad/IBA good, or vice versa.
As I posted before:
This isn't all about the Evil IBA, you know. I for one will never forgive them for what they did to poor old Michael Conlon at the Rio Olympics, so I wouldn't waste any breath defending the IBA, believe me.

So let's leave the IBA as a corrupt, match-fixing, Russian-financed organisation to one side, and focus on everything else that leads us to believe that Khelif and Lin are not biological females, and therefore should not be eligible to box against biological females.

The discussion has gone way beyond the dodginess of the IBA as an organisation.

A passport that sounds ridiculous there must be more to it.

And I STILL don't think it's been answered ....What about this PERSON'S OWN DAMN COACH who has said there is a "chromosome problem"?

What do you think it means?

Any answer to that one?

No that was the IOC's only criteria for being eligible to box as a female

I saw that, too. It struck me as really odd, and a bit try hard in the face of the concerns raised. If the court case persists, it'll all come out in the wash.

After the tests carried out by the IBA were thrown out there was none conducted by IOC. Interesting 🤔

No, there isn't.

Usually the bodies for individual sports set eligibility criteria for entry, World Athletics for example. Most of these are defined by sex to one degree or another. The IOC doesn't set anything itself.

Boxing is different, in that the IBA was expelled because its current head, and much of its funding, was Russian. The IOC therefore had to set the entry criteria, which is merely what is stated in the passport. The explicitly don't want "a return to the dark days of sex testing" from an ideological position.

In the UK, no evidence is required to change the sex marker on your passport, so one could self-ID into women's boxing.

@Ingenieur Sounds brutal for the female opponent who fights against them. A lot of male commentators have spoken against men identifying as women fighting women in MMA.

As far as we're aware, neither the IBA nor IOC "carry out" their own tests. They order them. Any testing and analysis of this type is done by independently CAS-accredited labs completely separate from the sporting organisations. But no, IOC has said it doesn't want to return to what it calls "the bad old days of sex testing". Even though most of its female athletes want that; it's only a simple cheek swab after all, and not anywhere near as invasive as the tests female athletes have to go through routinely to check for pregnancies etc.

You are right hihelen, but the fuckwittery around the posts rely on the usual false accusations, guilt by association while falling back on emotional manipulative tactics, and weak logic. It is a replay of what the IOC have been doing for weeks now.

That is where it starts and some
people simply copy those tactics because that is what seems to amount to activism these days.

Of course, those doing so cannot focus on the female athletes who have lost safeguarding as well as opportunity for the past 25 years. All because the IOC allowed an activist group to make changes that violated the human rights of female athletes.

Because to some people, female athletes will always be less important than special male athletes (those who have gone through male puberty) who have accessed the protected category of female sports. Those special male athletes will always take priority.

I see certain posters have turned this thread into a festival of whataboutery. Let’s go back to facts. We know that IK (and the other boxer) had blood chromosome tests at an accredited, independent, professional laboratory. The results have been seen by many people including a respected, independent, professional journalist, who has reported that they unambiguously showed XY chromosomes. IK’s own coach has said that because of these results, IK’s team ordered separate tests at a reputable Paris hospital. These also showed ‘a problem’ with IK’s chromosomes and that IK had testosterone levels in the male range. IK is now on treatment to reduce testosterone to normal female levels which has caused significant loss of muscle mass. NONE of these facts have been denied by IK, their team or the IOC.

and considering that WADA have said they only deal with doping matters, they haven’t confirmed anything that the IBA said…

www.aol.com/iba-holds-chaotic-news-conference-173814830.html?guccounter=1