Do you talk about this stuff in your "real" life?

[DungareesAndTrombones]

Just pondering after having a disagreement with a distant friend on social media about the boxing debacle, where she and lots of her mates disagree with my view that the most important thing should be protecting women...

Do you talk about this stuff in your real life? I do to close friends but I would never share anything on my own social media, and I've said a couple of things at work but pretty sure I would get the sack if I said my actual views. I've got a younger team member who hates JKR with a passion and I spend time biting my tongue when she speaks about her.

Why does it feel so worrying for me being GC to speak out but other people who think TWAW are free to plaster it everywhere?

I'm completely open in real life about my views. Luckily dp (a fellow biologist) and our teenagers are fully on board.

Yes I do, if I get any sense at all that the other person is gender critical. But I pick my moments and examples carefully.

I also do anything which can be done anonymously, like surveys, complaints or nominations.

What I don’t do is put anything on social media because a) it lasts forever and b) you have no real control over who might see it. Unfortunately my situation isn’t quite secure enough to be as open as I would like to be in that respect.

I like to think a bit of non-participation sends a small message. I'm not adding pronoun suggestions to my email (and nobody else in my team except the boss has either).

Dh was asked to provide his pronouns and just ignored it.
I just don't have the patience for the Michael Phelps convo any more. I once talked about this on a Whatsapp group with close friends, and I can sense two have frozen me out now.

I just don't have the patience for the Michael Phelps convo any more.
The newish French swimming star, Leon Marchand, looked averagely sized standing next to his relay mates. You clearly don't need Michael Phelps' flippers to do well in swimming.

I thought there’d be a lot more replies saying they’re forward about it. Sad it’s not the case but also good to know I’m not alone in being careful.

My team at work is a bit of a pain on issues like these. There’s someone who doesn’t realise you’re supposed to have a filter at work so comes out with all kind of things and she’s quite a conspiracy theorist. On this issue, when she brings it up she’s not clued up so when people in the team who are very TWAW push against what she says I find it hard not to say a few things to try to get some reason interjected.

I just don't have the patience for the Michael Phelps convo any more.

It’s so frustrating isn’t it? Even worse when they bring ethnicity or race into it. Do you want to start banning Ethiopians from running? Uh no just men out of women’s sport.

To my dh, and my very close friends, but we're always careful not to be overheard. I'd lose my job, it's a simple as that.

I've just shared for the first time and had someone defriend me and another call out 'transphobia' on their page.
Couldn't care less now. I speak about it all the time, I've peaked several friends and as we all know, once you see it you can't unsee it. I'm sick of being imposed upon by men.
All the women in know are GC but in positions where they fear it will impact upon them. I'm sick of people calling women fascists and bigots.
Two of my gay male mates said to me that they think it's 'terrible' what's happening to women. They are the sweetest guys I know year two years ago they wet e little dismissive of my comcerns. They raise it this time as I NEVER debate women's rights with men.
You men? You have your safe spaces and clubs and toilets and religious/political and social spaces and no women will venture there but we have to concede EVERYWHERE. Every fucking event I go to now has men in the loo washing their hands or right in the cubicle next to me and no one else around. I don't want it, so yes it is about toilets but also so much more.
I'm out now anyway so waves to fellow fascists on here!

So all 8 or so of my very good friends (women) that is socialise with are all fully parked.
I'm off to meet a friend now who is the outlier but I know once I explain facts she'll see sense, it's there I can see it! Ridiculous situation where we are skulking around like this when others shout their own views loudly on a whole raft of issues.
It's all still 'no debate' for women.

I'd be really tempted to say you're shocked to hear him using a misogynistic slur like that, you didn't think he was that kind of person. And then show him who else uses that word.

www.terfisaslur.com

The benefits of being self employed. I can't get fired for my views. So while I don't bring it up I don't keep quiet. With family and friends yes I'm very vocal mostly they agree with me anyway. One male I can tell is just humouring me and thinks I've been made hysterical by other hysterical illogical women online, he's one of those who thinks he knows everything and feels personally attacked when I say as a man he can't know what it's like to live as a woman

Yes I do. At every reasonable opportunity.

I never use the dishonest phrases 'transwoman' or 'transman' though.

I always correctly sex the people I am talking about.

I have peaked many of my friends and acquaintances in this way.

Yep, did just yesterday at a BBQ. And probably will do next week on extended-family holiday.

Seven years ago I mentioned this at a book group and was roundly pooh poohed as bringing up a fringe topic not affecting anyone. “Too few to make any difference.”

Now three of them have trans-identifying children. No one says a thing as book group is silently split down the middle on this.

Wrong Side Of History, My Arse

Yes I do talk about it in RL, very openly , with my kids, my extended family and friends.

I discuss it in a guarded way at work, I mention it in a subtle way and then go on if it seems that the person is open and questioning or even GC. I don’t waste my time talking with people who are stupid or closed minded .

I should point out that I’m self employed to I’m not going to sacked for having opinions.

Im chip chipping away at things in the organisations I volunteer with, to promote safeguarding.

Yes much to the annoyance or anger of people who can’t think critically and who want to cling on to their woke credentials. I’ve made new friends though which is fantastic!!

Yes. but I am old, and most people I know who are my age or even just a bit younger think it’s all nonsense ( dangerous nonsense re the boxing) anyway.

My closest friends shared with me the devastation wrought by a mutual acquaintance on his family and his fiancée when he decided to be a woman ( although not a trans woman, that hadn’t been invented in quite this format at that time), so we don’t need to discuss it.

I have changed my will, though, when some of the beneficiaries ( institutions) started to promote this stuff, especially when they shoehorn drag queens into completely inappropriate and irrelevant situations. I really enjoyed writing to them to tell them, because some of the legacies were substantial.

My daughter is 13 and is spoon-fed a lot of #bekind at school. She has made it very clear that she does not believe that humans can change sex and will politely explain that to both pupils and teachers if she is asked. She's well aware that her views are not always shared by others, but she maintains her position regardless.

If she can hold the line then I have to, so yes I do talk about this in real life. Not in an antagonistic way but just calling out when I believe that something is not correct.

With friends, yes. Even those friends who are totally TWAW know that I disagree with them. One or two have said we'd best avoid the subject so as not to get into fights, which I can live with.

At work (public sector) I'm very cautious. Probably my approach has elements of quiet quitting - no pronouns in signature, no rainbow lanyard, and there are enough colleagues who do neither to be a critical mass where it's not noticed if you're not doing it. It helps that I get on really well with gay colleagues, including those active in the alphabet network, though quite likely they assume that if I say nothing then I agree with them.

If I have a hint that a colleague might be sympathetic - like they mention old-school feminist or socialist politics - I might talk about it carefully. I had a good conversation with a young woman who's a huge Harry Potter fan - even though she felt JKR should not have said The Bad Thing, she did acknowledge there's a legitimate issue.

It's a tricky one. I disapprove of the "bring your whole self to work" thing, but I also chafe against feeling that I have to stay silent while the other point of view can bang on and on about it, including in the staff newsletter. It makes me feel that "bring your whole self to work" has an unspoken annex of "no not you", and that shows you where power lies.

I felt alone at home until DH, who had previously been inclined to roll eyes and mutter, 'Oh here she goes again,' suddenly turned to the (then) teens and said something like, 'Grow up! Don't bloody dare tell your mum she knows less about womanhood than your trans friends.'

DD has very strong GC views by now. (I can't take much credit. It's the behaviour of pissed, selfish, trans blokes at university that has changed her mind; that and a strong streak of common sense.)

DS has at least stopped shouting at us, despite his fondness for a rainbow flag and a good argument.

There are few people I can openly talk about this subject with. My sister is very much GC, the only time we don't discuss is if the kids are around, they are quite young still. The rest of the family is also on the side of reality. It is one of the very few topics we could discuss at the dinner table at Christmas without an argument starting.
In my previous job I once said to my office manager that if they ever decided to add pronouns, I would not comply. His response was "Why would people put down their pronouns?".
In my new job the subject has crept up a few times,never brought up by me, but I was very much "neutral". It gave me a chance to try and suss out who is more GC inclined. A few colleagues seem to be of the "just be kind" faction, but were also shocked by the boxers.

I do think one of the interesting elements of all this is how people who are into id pol seem to feel free to bring their politics, and IMO their religion, into work in such an overt way. And impose it on others.

I talk to everyone I can about it, and to hell with their reactions. I encourage you all to do the same.

If someone doesn't share my GC views, they will hear all about them. I'm not shy or retiring about this - I'm bold and I know my stuff. Someone talks about their "transgender daughter", I correct them on the spot, and I never back down.

Reading this thread has made me weep. Some of you would really prefer your delusion a nice, quiet, frictionless life in a world where children are being systematically mutilated by doctors. This is pure cowardice. It's simple. You need to stand up and make yourself heard, in every aspect of your life. No battle is too small, no enemy is too big.

Yes

Down my rowing club the 'fairness in sport' debate is unsurprisingly discussed fairly publicly and robustly. Dovetailed to that discussion is the safeguarding and welfare issues that invariably follow if you allow men into women's sports. Generally speaking anyone who actively competes in a sport sees straight away the utter absurdity of allowing transwomen to compete against biological women. Sadly there are still plenty of (mostly non sporting) people who still believe the nonsense that testosterone suppression/minimum levels negate any advantages and I am very quick to correct anyone espousing this view. There has been so much misinformation pumped into the public debate that I can almost forgive people for being not up to speed with the current debate. Where I get angry is when people concede there is an unfair advantage but women, for the sake of inclusion and 'being kind' should just accept the unfairness and higher risk to injury of competing against transwomen.