Do you talk about this stuff in your "real" life?

[DungareesAndTrombones]

Just pondering after having a disagreement with a distant friend on social media about the boxing debacle, where she and lots of her mates disagree with my view that the most important thing should be protecting women...

Do you talk about this stuff in your real life? I do to close friends but I would never share anything on my own social media, and I've said a couple of things at work but pretty sure I would get the sack if I said my actual views. I've got a younger team member who hates JKR with a passion and I spend time biting my tongue when she speaks about her.

Why does it feel so worrying for me being GC to speak out but other people who think TWAW are free to plaster it everywhere?

I'm very guarded about who I discuss this stuff with. I'm particularly careful with friends that I see very infrequently. My reason for this is that I don't want to jeapordise long-term friendships by falling out about this issue.

I can't even discuss it in my house as dd is very TWAW and even dh thinks I'm being over dramatic about it

A man from work - who is actually a really decent guy in every other respect - posted yesterday about how 'all the TERFs' are going crazy'.
I considered replying, or maybe saying something at work, but have not so far. I work closely with him, and don't need any extra tension, so I'll stay quiet.

I wish he'd thought of doing the same.

With DH & my family but otherwise no, and definitely not at work

i sign petitions & garden as much as possible and thank god for those brave women & men who speak publicly

Yes. On my fb account and directly to friends who would understand the issue even if their view was different. What I mean by that is that I have a couple of friends who live in their own bubble and are not aware of anything of current affairs so I know they will not want to talk about this stuff. If it ever came up I would do though.
I am early retired so don’t need to police my words. I have some friends who do have to watch what they say because of their employer's stance which must be awful.

I belong to an arts community that is very TWAW and I know if I came out very publicly with any other opinion I would probably essentially be blacklisted. So I don't.

Absolutely. But I have a lot of lesbian friends so I’m preaching to the converted really

Yes, absolutely. It's too important to me not to. And I'm really bolshie, self employed, and economically sorted, so if I don't, who will.

being a teacher in adult education, I avoid this like the plague (to either students, staff or management)

@DungareesAndTrombones "Why does it feel so worrying for me being GC to speak out but other people who think TWAW are free to plaster it everywhere?"

That's what I want to know! Why? Why, why, why? Who died and made them God?

It couldn't be purely a matter of women's rights counting for squat? Could it? 😳

Interestingly this came up over a drunken curry last night & I was amazed that I was the most tolerant voice in the room.
I was trying to explain the difference between transwomen and sportspeople with DSDs (in the context of neither being appropriate in women's sport, but different than each other). The men in particular were appalled by the boxing fiasco.

It was weird.

But no, I never raise the subject and I'm extremely vague with my words when its raised. If I was pushed I'd speak the truth though. My closest, sensible, lovely friends steer away from the subject after I told them my child ncerms back 5+ years ago, but one opened up to me a while ago that she had concerns about a 'trans child' who has exhibited extreme attention seeking behaviour previously, and was now socially transitioning.

Even in that case, I listened far more than I spoke - it's one of those logical conclusions some 'kind' people have to arrive at themselves with the drip, drip, drip of unbelievable shit in the news I think.

Yes.

I speak about freely with DH, dds, DSD and (soon to be) son-in-law, and my parents. I did used to talk about it with my sister and BIL but they're both TWAW and Bil especially is very black and white about the whole thing.

He seems to think if you don't think TWAW then you're also a right wing evangelist homophobe. Which couldn't be more ridiculous considering I'm a life long Labour voting socialist, also an atheist and my youngest daughter is openly gay! All of which he knows.

It's definitely affected my relationship with my sister and BIL, we keep avoiding the topic altogether now. But after it all blew up again when October 7th happened, they're very much "free Palestine" and think the Israelis are akin to Nazis, and I (and DH) are firmly on Israel's side, (partly because my DH is half Jewish and so by extension are my dds and DSD). That's something else we avoid talking about now. Our conversations have become very superficial and lack meaning now.

Yes. I'm respectful, factual and unapologetic. If someone decides they no longer want associate with me because I don't think humans can change sex, that's fine. People who are untethered to reality make volatile friends so it's good to know.

My reasonably new DP is generally quite "captured" due to his social circles, so I've been wary of mentioning anything. I did gently add context to the JKR argument when it came up, and my point got through there, so I'm making headway 😁

No need for pussyfooting with the boxing though, he is utterly in agreement that it is ridiculous to allow a genetic male to fight a woman

My teenagers are both fully GC

I remember bringing it up years ago re sport with my parents and they looked at me like - they were utterly convinced I'd be TWAW 🤣

My wider family are all sane too, though some unfortunately fall firmly in the sexist side rather than the feminist side.

Friend wise, my friends are all more alternative (due to various different reasons), and none of them believe it is possible to change sex.

Yes. Assertiveness is your friend. There is little to argue about if one says "I find my female biology has been one of the most important factors in my life experiences to date and so I believe woman = adult human female and find it offensive when people imply someone without male biology can fully understand". Probably with some examples about childbirth, sexism.

I can't be vocal. It would kill my business and alienate some of my best friends (trans children). I see some MAD mental gymnastics from my sister in particular but the only thing I can do is stay quiet and occasionally talk to DH / one close friend about it.

Stonewall are still a big presence at work, there are vanishingly few people with whom I can be open. DH was captured for a brief, lots of TWAW from on his hobby circle

Just along. Fe questions sorted him out and we now both jut keep quiet on many occasions.

sigh.

Haven't for ages as teenagers very TWAW.
However, the boxing thing is making offspring 1 think a bit and we had a good discussion about it yesterday.

To a couple of close friends yes. With some friends and family I actively avoid discussing it.

Yep, and nobody ever disagrees with me. It’s heartening.

Very fortunate that my DH and most of my friends are gender critical.

I have relatives in the US who work in academia so they parrot TWAW but it's obvious that they haven't given much thought to the ideology.

I just posted this morning on this very thing! I started questioning the TWAW mantra a few years back by opening up to a few friends and got blocked by them, so I retreated, until the other day I felt brave enough to say something to a different friend, but the same thing happened. Like a lot of you, I'm basically self censoring from now on, and hoping that when this all comes out in the wash (I can only hope) then I can reconnect in a more meaningful way than how I feel I can now. I don't need to agree with everything my friends believe, but the fact that they would label me so carelessly has left me so fed up.