I have never felt a punch like this’ – Carini

[Omlettes]

Words fail I'm so angry, but by god she is brave.
Personally I feel sick and 'triggered' it reminds me of the first time an ex punched me on the thigh, I couldnt get over how much it hurt or the enormous bruise from knee to hip. I know there is a general thread on this but its so important it deserves multiple threads. I hope Carinis decision to stop the fight so very publicly makes a difference.
Meanwhile Khelif crows “I am here for gold,” “I will fight anybody, I will fight them all.”
Not the REMOTEST hint of sportsmanlike conduct.
I vote we write to VIiner en masse and lay some responsibility at her feet.
Actually EVERY editor, The Indy NYT WAPO etc
I am incandescent

Well I would have taken your bet before the Rio Olympics, and cleared you out ! I mean, what were the chances that quite randomly not one, not two, but three DSD athletes who are genetically male ran in the Women’s 800m . And even more amazingly all three won the medals, gold, silver, bronze.

No, its not. Please drop this canard.
XX XY

@similarminimer you believe that women can have XY chromosomes do you not?

That would place you as someone believing in transgenderism as a political ideology. That's all fine, but expect robust challenge because it's demonstrably incorrect (as is flat earth theory, which is why I make the comparison).

Your posting on whether these men should be allowed to box with women is more confusing. You say you are against it, but have spent a considerable amount of time arguing that it is unfair to exclude people with XY chromosomes from the women's boxing category. There it is though. We don't agree.

You clearly are like a flat earther.

Funnily enough boxing authorities try to make things fair , unlike the IOC, so they separate boxers into weight categories so the big heavy hitting heavyweights don’t pulverise the smaller lighter boxers with shorter arms. Unfortunately these two boxers box in different categories.

The person in the picture is the male boxer in question. Can you please stop derailing my thread.
Its not a complex issue in the slightest beyond an underhand muddying of the waters.
He is a he. She is a she.
https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/a-biologist-explains-why-sex-is-binary

Sadly that's not true. Alll 3 800m medal winners in Rio had (prbably) parial androgen insensitivity and subsequently became ineligible to run at that distance (but not all - 200m remains available to male bodied athletes). It's of course wrong, women should not be racing men

He doesn't have CAIS, people with CAIS look like women.

@TempestTost I'm just challenging you. If that makes me a dick, so be it (I do have one). I'm just highlighting the movement and inconsistency in your positions as this discussion has progressed. You started by saying these male boxers are women. Then it was that they wouldn't win in the male category, so they should be allowed in the female category, where they will win (and them being able to win is what is fair apparently). Now they are disabled males who should have a special category in the Paralympics. I can go with them either competing in the male competition, or having their own category in the Paralympics, but not with the rest of us having to maintain the lie that they are woman and can compete in the woman's competition.

I don't know anything about that, was it actually confirmed that they were DSD?

If so we have bigger issues, not just that we are allowing actually men to to compete against women but that people who are actually dsd are also competing most likely because they know they have an advantage and are going to win

That was so horrible watching the Italian boxer on the BBC round up saying that she had to stop the fight because of the pain. Jesus Christ.
And how absolutely disgusting that her Olympic chance was stopped by IOC allowing this to happen. I know fuck all about boxing but anyone could see that pair were completely unequally matched physically. Why is this still being allowed?

@similarminimer you believe that women can have XY chromosomes do you not?

That would place you as someone believing in transgenderism as a political ideology. That's all fine, but expect robust challenge because it's demonstrably incorrect (as is flat earth theory, which is why I make the comparison).

I'm interested that this has come up - the idea that trangenderism has something to do with men competing in female sports. It really doesnt. It's wrong and offensive to combine transfender issues and DSDs. Why on earth are they being conflated?

To be clear, I don't think that men should compete in female sports. Whether or not they believe themselves to be women.

I'm frustrated that MRAs and TRAs are forgiving this egregious failure of the Olympic committee to protect women from being punched by men, from being excluded from victory by men, and claiming it's some sort of TERFY prejudice. It's wrong, and the point is being missed, and for people on this board to be lazily lumping it together is so disappointing. I dont want men to compete in womens sports.

I'm only saying that in extremely rare cases of CAIS, I think they are phenotypically women and should be included in womens sports

@omlettes -
I think it stopped being 'your thread' at the point you posted it.

Yes.

https://x.com/icons_women/status/1644777419138797568

But if they are only phenotypically women because they have CAIS, then they are male, surely.

@similarminimer

Caster Semenya has 46XY 5-ARD.

You do want men to compete in women's sports. You keep saying so.
Sex is not decided by phenotype.

If you genuinely think transgenderism has nothing to do with this, you need to educate yourself. CAIS males are the wedge to hold the door open for all other males who want to be in women's competitions.

Edited to tag poster in.

Why does everyone think this is the DSD he has? I haven't seen any official comment, is it just made up by people wanting to justify his inclusion

Yes, IMO.

If you genuinely think transgenderism has nothing to do with this, you need to educate yourself. CAIS males are the wedge to hold the door open for all other males who want to be in women's competitions.

I agree.

Was that for me? Partial androgen insensitivity- like Semenya's condition -leads to male puberty. And therfore should exclude people with that condition from being eligible for fremale competition. And as i have said - repeatedly, as clearly as I can, that's different to having complete androgen insensitivity.

I am sorry that i have not been able to articulate myself more clearly. It was a side point, in response to 'XY cant compete'.

@similarminimer it's not a person's experience of puberty that determines eligibility. It's whether they are male or female by chromosomes. Stop trying to remake the human species.

I AM remaking the human species. In my special scret lab. How did you fnd out?

thought this was a useful addition to the chat

PAIS is a totally different condition to 46XY, 5-ARD.
Men with CS's DSD can make full use of testosterone at puberty.

If you are calling for CAIS males to be in women's competitions, you are calling for men to compete against women.

They may choose to present socially as women, but their sex is male. Sex is not decided by phenotype. The male-specific DSD which they have is what has caused the feminisation. Female embryos are unaffected by AIS, though they may be carriers.

Female is a sex, not a degree of strength, or a hormone level.

We don't put disabled men in women's competitions. They compete with their peers as men.

Maybe you need to read more carefully if you are wanting to "challenge" people. I haven't said anything about male boxers being women or being allowed in women's boxing.

If you can't keep track of who is posting maybe be a little less high handed in your responses.

I know Khelif has been beaten.
He's not that good technically, apparently.

He's still a man and should not be in women's boxing for that reason.