Slaughtering women & girls is *not* terrorism, according to the police

[YellowAsteroid]

Well, what is it then, when women & girls are targeted because they are specifically girls & women ?

Just your common or garden slaughter?

I'm so so angry about the way in which the regular murder of girls & women because they are female is not seen as political, or a terrorist action.

It’s not wild speculation though is it? That a female centred space was targeted and the victims were pretty much all female conclusions can be drawn

If he'd armed himself with a knife, taken a taxi to a gay bar and stabbed as many gay men as he could, I doubt there'd be so many posts making out it's unreasonable to assume that he'd targeted them because they were gay.

But when it comes to women and girl victims, it's always 'unlikely' they're killed because they're female. It must be mental health and just a coincidence, I suppose, that the perpetrator just happened to 'snap' and unleash on women and girls instead of big burly men.

It doesn't have to be wild speculation to be speculation.

We just don't know at the moment what his motives were. If it turns out to be ideological, I agree it should be treated as terrorism. If it turns out to be some kind of personal grievance, then while terrifying, it doesn't qualify as an act of terrorism.

The more people speculate about it, wildly or otherwise, the more chance the thread will be pulled. I think it's wise to stick to generalities and keep the discussion of what to do about misogynist ideologies separate from this case until more is known.

Exactly, the former would be seen absolutely as a hate crime.

My extremely basic view I summed up earlier to my partner.

A Christian, Jewish and Muslim woman all walk into a room.

And they all manage to not kill anyone.

It seems pretty simple to me, some men, regardless of their religion or culture or skin colour want to kill women.

It seems people are desperate to not acknowledge that it's men who are the problem, because women from most communities are for the most part, unlikely to sexually assault and murder people.

Men and their entitlement to just kill women and children isn't standard terrorism that we've all grown up with, like a suspect package left on a crowded train, it's new wave terrorism that involves acid attacks and stabbings or bombs on predominantly women and girls.

There are plenty of summer camps ran by ex soldiers for kids, the assault courses and what not. It's no coincidence they're not targeted.

Women probably aren't important enough to be terrorism victims, we're just collateral damage of dangerous "lone wolves".

It's fucking breaking my heart thinking about those little girls. I hope the murderer is never free, regardless of whatever struggles he had with being mentally unwell, he went for the most vulnerable. It was premeditated. Whole life order.

I think it's a good example of where we could bring back capital punishment. I see no value in keeping this man alive. What's he done is beyond devastating.

We don't know much about the awful Southport incident but we do know that the victims were female. That's all we can say at the is point.

However, I think it's worth remembering (separate to Soujthport) that sometimes females suffer violence and death simply because they are easier targets than males and considered collateral damage for a cause. That's not active hatred as such, more a callous disregard for the more vulnerable in the pursuit of one's interests. That's absolutely zero consolation to the victims and remains just as political because the end goal is the prioritisation of the aims of the person committing the violence.

Does an attack have to be coordinated in order to be considered terrorism? "Lone wolves" are often inspired by ideologies even if not connected with a network. They don't need manifestos if they are attacking because they hate something and want to stop it happening. It is a use of terror to change people's behaviours, whether or not there is a clear political motive.

Fwiw, a family member with psychosis was caught up in some scary Internet conspiracies before he was sectioned. If he'd hurt anyone it would certainly have been a result of poor mental health, but there would also have been a political angle. The online manipulators are just as willing to exploit the vulnerable as the true believers, in fact I'd wager most of their recruits are.

PREVENT have more and more radical incels being referred to them.

If he'd armed himself with a knife, taken a taxi to a gay bar and stabbed as many gay men as he could, I doubt there'd be so many posts making out it's unreasonable to assume that he'd targeted them because they were gay.

Puts it perfectly, the downplaying of violence against women and girls is part of the problem. Dismissing them as one offs or isolated incidents prevents interventions and solutions.

Rest in peace Elsie, Alice and Bebe.

I don't think anyone is dismissing the attack as a one off. Not on this thread, anyway. I think people are saying we don't know the motive yet, a lot of information is being withheld for some reason. And personally I'm saying that thread after thread has been pulled by MN for 'speculation' and it would be good to not have another one pulled.

I would like to see the death penalty brought back for cases like this. It's so unbelievably evil.

If the Police had called it Terrorism, there would have been a mob outside the mosque with molotov cocktails within twenty minutes, with others travelling to the area from miles around to watch it burn. Never mind the ethnicity of the murderer, never mind the faith or nationality or birthplace - they were already all over social media declaring what they 'knew'.

That's why they can't call it terrorism.

Hasn’t enough blood been shed yet for some of you? Wait for the facts. The perpetrator may not have been in full control of his actions due to learning disabilities or brain injury or severe mental illness. He’s also a minor. Public safety is not improved by state sanctioned homicide.

There is talk of protests tonight anyway , regardless of what the police label the incident as.

I was already a mother before I was his age no excuses he took away those three girls lives.

I cannot believe I was deleted for quoting his neighbours who said he was 'nice' and that the family originally came from Rwanda. It really is 1984 on MN these days!

Just another male targeting and killing soft victims. Jess Phillips has certainly got her work cut out.

Those poor children and their families.

It’s not about excusing his actions. It’s about the sort of society you want your children to live in. Medieval and barbaric or safer and more civilised?

Humanitarian arguments aside, the death penalty doesn’t work as a deterrent.

Death penalty works well as a punishment, though.

I don't want to live in a society where children are stabbed in dance classes and the killer still gets to walk the earth

So you do think the death penalty should work as a deterrent, then? It doesn't. It's barbaric.

I think it's much better to have someone in prison, grinding through every day, having to accept what they have done and the reason why they are there. That is justice. Not vengeance.

The problem is that male prisoners are always being let out early, no matter what they have done.

I think we should let the police do tHeir job and investigate the cause. We don’t know whether its due to mental illness, mysogyny or something else at this stage.

agreed. VAWG is terrorism.

It's appalling that people are ignoring that fact. Those are CHILDREN. It's sickening how the response to this on social media has been, why are people more interested in pushing misinformation rather than correctly calling this out for the crime it is?

Those families must be so utterly devastated.

I think that's a fair comment.

It may be that he hates women and girls, or it may simply be that we are a softer targer.