Slaughtering women & girls is *not* terrorism, according to the police

[YellowAsteroid]

Well, what is it then, when women & girls are targeted because they are specifically girls & women ?

Just your common or garden slaughter?

I'm so so angry about the way in which the regular murder of girls & women because they are female is not seen as political, or a terrorist action.

This is so bloody true. I have never thought of it like that before.

He won't be, if convicted. He will be walking a jail cell.

Capital punishment has the downside that unsafe convictions mean innocent people being murdered by the State. It's not possible to only have the death penalty for "safe" convictions because all convictions are presumed safe until an appeal shows otherwise.

We have collectively, via our MPs, decided that it's better to have whole life orders ETA: I think these are now called "detained at His Majesty's pleasure", basically you aren't coming out until the Home Secretary says so for the really nasty people than to risk executing someone who might be innocent, no matter how remote that chance of innocence is.

Before you start frothing about "sympathising with a killer", read the above again. Not having the death penalty is about who we collectively want to be as a country: a nation who allow for the possibility, even slight, that jury trials might return wrongful guilty verdicts and give only sentences that allow for the possibility of release on successful appeal.

1. we don't know if the motive is incelism
2. we need to classify incelism as terrorism if it comes with a manifesto style explanation like some murders have.

I despise this idea that terrorism has become solely brown/islamic people. Historically in this country that has been totally removed from our experience.

Thanks for expressing it so well.

I dove into incel and MRA culture in 2012 and you would weep in despair if you saw what they advocate.
Incel culture has been allowed to grow unchecked for 15 years or more.

The problem is, when death sentences were removed, the agreement was that taking a life would always mean life in prison. Instead, prison sentences are now risible and the public feel betrayed.

Such a great point. It's ableism.

@Leah5678 you don’t understand what schizophrenia is.

But when it comes to women and girl victims, it's always 'unlikely' they're killed because they're female. It must be mental health and just a coincidence, I suppose, that the perpetrator just happened to 'snap' and unleash on women and girls instead of big burly men.

Thank you @yourhairiswinterfire . You put it far better than I could through the spluttering anger I've been feeling for most of today.

For clarity, again: the Southport incident has made me so angry, but my OP was about ALL the deliberate attacks on girls & women because they are girls and women.

And how much we've normalised this.

It seems people are desperate to not acknowledge that it's men who are the problem, because women from most communities are for the most part, unlikely to sexually assault and murder people.

Men and their entitlement to just kill women and children isn't standard terrorism that we've all grown up with, like a suspect package left on a crowded train, it's new wave terrorism that involves acid attacks and stabbings or bombs on predominantly women and girls.

Yes. 👏 👏 👏 👏

The political or ideological aim is to remove women's access to public life. To frighten us back in to the home where we can be controlled and subjugated by our fathers, husbands or sons.

my OP was about ALL the deliberate attacks on girls & women because they are girls and women.

OP, I understood that this is a general thread on the topic given that today has updates on

• Carol, Hannah and Louise Hunt
• Emma and Lettie Pattison
• Anita Rose

What a good way of putting it. Gave me chills. It is so ingrained I barely even notice all the times I make myself smaller or don't take part because of fear.

I agree @Snowypeaks

Capital punishment is #notinmyname

This

And half the point of us saying the problem is MEN murdering women and girls is to step aside from the whataboutery and distraction of what religion, which race, mental health blah blah. The problem of men using violence to suppress, opress and incite fear into women is global and cross cultural.

Please note I think it is much too early to comment on the horrifying events in Southport.

Absolutely NO WAY should we allow male violence against women to be caught up in the inter conflict of political and religious ideology.

MALE violence is universal.

It should not be downplayed into men trying to impose their politics or religion on other groups.

It absolutely should be made clear that if a man or boy targets women or girls it is femicide.

The problem in this country is women aren't even afforded the legal status of having violence against women considered a hate crime.

So whilst i agree with OP's sense of anger etc., I for one am NOT going to let men decide is it this, is it that.

If, after FACTS ARE KNOWN, is it clear that the class was targetted because they were all girls then that is a different matter.

(Just one comment about what happened in Southport, the media are going out of their way NOT to say girls but to say children, whereas local people all talk about girls.)

Despite public hand ringing, and isn't it awful, the country as a whole, whether polticians and members of the public do not want to talk about how normal most people seem to think it is that men are violent against women.

And much as I think the femicide report has been a good public campaign, what we really need is a public list of the male perpetrators.

Otherwise it is all just hand wringing, and how sad, she was such a lovely woman / girl.

We need to expose and make the public accept that unless and until men start respecting women and not thinking there will be no consequences for violence against women, it will never stop.

So please, dont lets get dragged into men's concepts about what is or is not the worst sort of crime.

We need to be absolutely clear, in what ever circumstance, that male violence against women is a world wide epidemic, and in too many cultures accepted as being acceptable.

So men should not be able to hide behind contested concepts of terrorism, and the government and police should not be able to conceal this society wide issue, which is male violence against women.

Based on the very basic concept that the male sex is superior and has more rights than women.

It’s not a justification, it’s how criminal law works in England and Wales and elsewhere. The guilty act, actus reus, and the guilty mind, mens rea.

Well the law is by men and for men, largely, with some amazing women within it trying to change it to make it fairer to women and children though it's slow going.

However, I think in this case the law will agree. You can't order a taxi and then claim you're somehow deranged, it would be an obvious lie.

So my comment was deleted for saying the man who's killed primary aged girls is an evil bastard? What the actual fuck?

I didn't say who it was or speculated, just said anyone who had the mental wherewithal to plan and commit this crime is an evil bastard and should not be excused on any account.

If we can't say that as mothers, where the hell are we?

dougalfromthemagicroundabout

This is a legal case in progress. Thus no one is guilty until a court finds this. Saying someone is evil might prejudice a trial. You can say whatever you like after a trial with a guilty verdict.

There may or may not be other issues at play. There may be failures of responsibility. Etc etc. We don't know.

The suspect is also not a man. He's a minor. Hence why he can't be legally named.

Until then we have to be restrained otherwise it risks a fair trial and that could potentially lead to someone walking free who shouldnt on technicalities. Do you want that?

MN right to delete .

You’re quite right. I was balancing too many thoughts at once, sorry

I'd just like to point out that there have been other stabbing incidents on children and schools in the past year.

One at an inner city school in Dublin on 23 November 2023. The perpetrator was an Algerian immigrant called Riad Bouchaker.

The second one was on 8 June 2023 in a playground in Annecy, France. The attacker was Abdalmasih H., a 31-year-old Syrian national.

Yes, it is terrorism. Of course it is. The authorities won't name it as such because of the repercussions. As a result more children will die.

On the general chat thread there are many people saying exactly the same as I said, and none deleted. Where's the justice there?

There is also a right to free speech and I would think the ability to say whoever it may be who has killed in cold blood 3 primary aged girls is evil should fall very clearly under the legal human right of freedom of speech.

It doesn't prejudice the investigation to say it's an evil act, how ridiculous.

The only thing deleting such a comment does, is excuse, minimise and cover up the worst possible crimes.