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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Wes Streeting addresses puberty blockers decision -excellent response

356 replies

Fenlandia · 14/07/2024 12:05

https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1812435914473295927

x.com

https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1812435914473295927

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
fromorbit · 16/07/2024 08:06

Love this from Darren "Former Green politician (the anti puberty blocker sort)"

Darren Johnson
Of all the battles when I was young: miners strike, privatisation, Section 28, IRA, Poll Tax never in my wildest dreams could I have predicted in 35 years time a battle would be raging between those in favour of chemically castrating kids and those against

x.com

https://x.com/DarrenJohnson66

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2024 08:06

DdraigGoch · 16/07/2024 01:09

Thinking about it from another angle, could the "conversion therapy" bill be used to stop people "transing away the gay"? As in if someone tells people "you like things usually associated with the opposite sex, you must be born in the wrong body" they would risk prosecution?

Yes. But they have to recognise the problem and that's not going to go down well at all with the people who want to 'trans away the gay', of which there are more than people like to admit.

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2024 08:10

fromorbit · 16/07/2024 07:45

It could indeed work for our side. The thing is a lot of the professional psychologist organisations are rebelling against TRA doctrine now and advising about issues in line with CAss. With Streeting having a key role in drafting the Conversion Therapy bill and it being based on CASS it may indeed have that focus.

I think the bill may have sections about sex and various sexualities being REAL in some way.

I think Streeting knows the TRAs are trying to trans away the gay. I think as a gay man who battled against internalised homophobia he is perfect to notice that. I think he is peaking or has peaked and what he says in public may not be his private thoughts.

The TRAs were aiming to use conversion therapy bill to get rid of bio sex. However that was based on the arrogant assumption that they would not be out manoeuvred by actual people living in the real world.

So that is why I say do not panic. Wait to see bills see how they read.

Do not assume we are going to lose. Even if we lose short term we can come back with a bigger victory. Scottish Women showed that it could be done.

I am fairly convinced that Wes Streeting is in contact either with Dennis Noel Kavanagh directly or with some one in his circle. I don't have any evidence or proof of this, but I have a hunch.

Fenlandia · 16/07/2024 08:25

lonelywater · 15/07/2024 23:57

not sure why this surprises you. If you relied only on the BBC you would never have heard of the WPATH files and barely much more than that about Cass. They are worse on gender hatstand than the Gruan, which really is saying something.

Who said I was surprised?

I am so weary of the BBC's lack of journalistic integrity and curiosity on this medical, social and political issue. And utterly bored of their obsession with drag queens, as if that was the dominant life experience of everyone under the LGBT.

OP posts:
Floisme · 16/07/2024 08:26

fromorbit · 15/07/2024 18:00

How do we fight?

Parliamentary

Any bills will be tabled and debated in Commons with the possibility of amendments. We have a core of about 10 or more potential Labour rebels if the bills are bad enough. That is not enough to stop the bill, but is enough to cause a media storm if they rebel. The Tories will go all out because what do they have to lose. It is not the vote which they will lose, but the weaknesses they will expose.

You mention lib Dems/Greens etc. They are not certain to support the bills. Fact is they won't because the Bills will have some stuff to keep women happy. So they will be trying to amend them to make them more crazy. TRA Labour MPs will be tempted to support them. More delays and debate. More sunlight where Lib Dem MPs will have to argue for removing safeguards etc. They may back the bills in the end, but the process will be messy.

Then there are the four Gaza Independent MPs. They are only 4 votes, but I think they will not be keen on these bills as they might lead to Mosques being in trouble over conversion therapy, or saying women exist and they need to be dressed in religious garb etc. So that will lead to infighting with TRA leftists/progressives which could get messy real fast. Again more debate. Do Labour want to lose Muslims over gender stuff?

Then the bills go through the Lords multiple times also with possibility of amendment. Any weaknesses will be mercilessly exposed in the Lords. The Lords might very well vote them down. Which means more Commons votes.

It will not be a straightforward process. It will be heavily contested.

Media
Most newspapers will watch gender bills like a hawk. Multiple stories will be run.
Even if the BBC skimps on coverage the social media buzz will be huge will get a lot of interest. Above all if JKR tweets it is a news story. That will go on for months.

Protest
We have a LOT of women, even men, ready to act and protest in person and online. You think JKR's army is big now well I think it could get way way bigger if we can argue the existence of women is at stake. Lots of demos outside Parliament.

So you might say all this doesn't stop the bills being passed with that majority and Lib/Green support. Nope, it doesn't but everything we do raises the stakes and effort needed and the attention it consumes and the drama. That is important. That might mean the bills are weakened or amended due to popular pressure.

We follow the Women won't Weesht playbook. They had way less resources, less media attention than a Westminster debate would have. The bill also did not have to face the Lords. The bill was passed, but the SNP was critically wounded to do it.

Sturgeon went all in to get the most TRA friendly bill possible to pass. Remember SHE LOST. It all was wrecked in the end.

How much effort will Starmer put in? 80%, 60% 30%? The thing is how important is this to him and the cabinet? I don't think he cares that much.

Then we get to the next fightback

Legal
We have amazing lawyers. They can analyse the bills and point out errors. Say Labour pass something which makes no legal sense. We challenge that in the courts and keep on going. We have lawyers and we have the funds. The clever in Labour know this. So they will be keen to avoid judicial review by drafting a bill which isn't open to challenge. However to do that they need to concede a lot of ground to reality. TRAs will not like that at all. Which makes the Parliamentary debate more fraught.

Which leads to my final point.

Operation Let Them Speak

Our biggest allies will be the TRAs themselves. They will describe any bill which admits reality as genocide. They will undermine the more dangerous clever activists who cloak their aims in favour of the most crazy ones. They will make Fox Killer their legal expert. Right through this process Labour will be being described as monsters. Which links back into the question about effort.

How important is this stuff if you are going to be described as transphobic bigots whatever you do anyway?

Knowing if you screw it up a child rapist might be waving his GRC weeks after the bill is passed saying "thanks Starmer".

That you might have child psychologists being prosecuted for telling girls they are not boys.

Yes bills are likely to be passed, but we can challenge them and hope to amend them enough they are dead letters. Or make the bills so toxic through publicity they badly damage Labour electorally.

Plus ultimately a Tory/Reform government would tear them up in 5 or 10 years anyway if they anger people enough.

Thank you.

endofthelinefinally · 16/07/2024 08:34

When you cannot do a clinical trial for reasons of ethics or children, you do a retrospective audit using the data collected by the institution giving experimental treatment. For example the use of low molecular weight heparin in pregnancy to prevent clots.
The Tavistock deliberately failed to keep data.
This whole thing has been very well planned and orchestrated.

MsGrumpytrousers · 16/07/2024 08:38

Do you really think it was deliberate? The impression I get is of a place that was utterly chaotic and incredibly badly managed. And by the end staff were ridiculously overworked.

borntobequiet · 16/07/2024 08:39

I’m sure that even people with no opinions on or concerns about any of the graver issues discussed on here, and who are entirely relaxed about homosexuality, seeing it as entirely normal, must be perplexed about the BBC’s obsession with drag, which borders on the unhealthy.
There must be some very strange people pushing this agenda in the Corporation.

Fenlandia · 16/07/2024 08:42

Apparently this got mentioned on the Today programme newspaper review this morning. It's a start but could we have some proper coverage from your own journalists please, BBC?

(Source: https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1813109389739631036 )

x.com

https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1813109389739631036

OP posts:
Floisme · 16/07/2024 08:46

According to today's Telegraph the Kings Speech will include a bill on conversion therapy.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/15/labour-ban-conversion-therapy-kings-speech-fears-parents/

It was on Joan Smith's Twitter page and I was able to access it despite the paywall so hopefully you can too.

Floisme · 16/07/2024 08:47

If you can't access it, here's an archive link:
https://archive.ph/BVk1B

fromorbit · 16/07/2024 08:49

Guardian suggesting this will come up in the Commons. Great more debate needed. Labour MPs against this now up to 7 out of 419.

Streeting is understood to be “minded” to make the ban permanent, subject to consultation and outcome of the judicial review. He is expected to issue a written ministerial statement to parliament on Thursday.

^https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/15/wes-streeting-defends-puberty-blocker-ban-decision-after-labour-criticism^

UN backing for Streeting

Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls

Good to see wesstreeting take a strong and principled approach on the administration of puberty blockers to minors and do the right thing! As I said in my press release on the CASS review, its implementation is key to protecting children, including girls (who are of concern to my mandate) from serious harm https://bit.ly/3SaagXw

There is a tonne of coverage of Streeting in local press. The BBC is looking absurd. This is a major story.

The Telegraph editorial -Labour must stand firm on puberty blockers

https://archive.is/y31wz

Wes Streeting expected to tell parliament why he backs puberty blockers ban

Health secretary understood to be ‘minded’ to make ban permanent as Labour MPs criticise move to retain Tory policy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/15/wes-streeting-defends-puberty-blocker-ban-decision-after-labour-criticism

Floisme · 16/07/2024 08:52

Wow your post disappeared in front of my eyes @fromorbit!- before I could read it unfortunately.

WarriorN · 16/07/2024 08:58

A wonderful thread of Maughanisms 😂

Plopping apricots 😂😆🤣

x.com/gappytales/status/1812949332536271258?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

SquirrelSoShiny · 16/07/2024 09:13

WarriorN · 16/07/2024 08:58

A wonderful thread of Maughanisms 😂

Plopping apricots 😂😆🤣

x.com/gappytales/status/1812949332536271258?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Could you possibly share the rest here? I love the starting line 😂

Main character energy on steroids. Maybe thst explains the bouts of ego rage tantrumming. 'I'm riiiiiight! I'm specccccciaaaaal!'

WarriorN · 16/07/2024 09:14

Fenlandia · 16/07/2024 08:42

Apparently this got mentioned on the Today programme newspaper review this morning. It's a start but could we have some proper coverage from your own journalists please, BBC?

(Source: https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1813109389739631036 )

The bbc are in part culpable for the backlash by not reporting on this with their health correspondent.

The today programme only mentioned it because they were doing a piece on the shocking levels of threats to MPs and candidates during the election campaign, some being told attending hustings was not safe.

They linked to a piece in the Mail by Maya about the death threats Wes is getting - they are sounding as bad as those Rosie has had. He read out a few awful ones and countered that the decision was based on a medical science review (Cass) showing lack of evidence.

The bbc are being woefully inadequate here. As is KS. He needs to show some leadership.

Valdor · 16/07/2024 09:15

Fenlandia · 15/07/2024 22:46

I'd be glad to be shown to be wrong, but I can't find any coverage of the Wes Streeting story on the BBC website. That's indefensible. Even the dear old Guardian has covered it, albeit with more focus on those who disagree with him.

Good sign not bad. Their default would have been negative coverage of it. No coverage is a win.

fromorbit · 16/07/2024 09:15

Floisme · 16/07/2024 08:52

Wow your post disappeared in front of my eyes @fromorbit!- before I could read it unfortunately.

I didn't think I said anything dodgy. Oh well hopefully it will reappear.

WarriorN · 16/07/2024 09:18

Maughan thread:

Wes Streeting addresses puberty blockers decision -excellent response
Wes Streeting addresses puberty blockers decision -excellent response
Wes Streeting addresses puberty blockers decision -excellent response
WarriorN · 16/07/2024 09:19

And the apricots ....

Wes Streeting addresses puberty blockers decision -excellent response
WarriorN · 16/07/2024 09:19

*Maugham

Slothtoes · 16/07/2024 09:22

I still think we need a public inquiry if we are to stop this happening again. On the not keeping research records point, the official regulators of research have been aware of the area at least since the Newsnight reports by Deborah Cohen and Hannah Barnes because they gave statements at the time that were broadcast.

Also the official regulators of doctors will have had it raised to them about how health professionals are involved in experimenting on kids and not keeping records with an expectation of publishing, (as they would do in actual legally regulated research).

Those official bodies may or may not have had enough legal powers to do anything to require giving PBs to kids to be considered research and treated as research, or to stop it happening if it already going on, harms were suspected and then confirmed. That state of affairs warrants a public investigation,

If the new law only covers PBs that isn’t enough to safeguard all kids. In this case it might be PBs devastating the lives of kids but currently or in future it could be some other kind of situation that is going on, with adults increasingly concerned, a vested interest group promoting it for political or financial gain, and seemingly nobody having powers to stop it until over a decade has passed. Which delay I would say is due to fears of legal culpability and political loss of face by those in power who have presided over injustice.
I’d say probably vaping in kids or kids use of social media is a different sort of brewing public health scandal with more not being done to stop it legally for financial and political reasons.
But there will be other examples similar to PBs in future (if there aren’t already happening) where the same drivers are there on kids and on the professional people around them and the medical establishment is used to facilitate harm.

Ditto NHS policies need a public enquiry to look at the role of lobby groups in obscuring the terminology the NHS has been using. The way the NHS has been using normalising language around adult medical and surgical transition may have encouraged kids to consider their problems in terms of gender identity as a solution In the first place, and then considering blockers as s reversible pause which was how it was described.

And the role of school policies needs investigating and of course the unethical leading behaviours of the TRA charities who reportedly coached kids in what to say in the clinic to get medication like PBs. So only a public inquiry can really do all that and protect children from medicalised experimentation of different kinds in the future.

WarriorN · 16/07/2024 09:23

Regarding the awful sexual assault on a woman in toilets supposedly by a woman up thread; apparently the same reporter wrote it up for NYBreaking and didn't change the pronouns.

x.com/anyabike/status/1813086635732660563?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Slothtoes · 16/07/2024 09:24

I think if you support this why not email Wes Streeting and say why. He needs to be fearless and objective and not be cowed.

WarriorN · 16/07/2024 09:24

Agree @Slothtoes

SSAUK's template letter calling for a public inquiry:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Public-Inquiry-Letter_following-CASS-1.docx