Spouse says men can use Ladies to change baby nappy?

[Bunty2727]

Im not a mum. I just went into the public toilet (to put up some single sex signs lol) and as I approached a man was just about to enter with a baby, I said excuse me I dont think you are allowed to use the ladies, he replied, pointing at the baby change sign, you can go in first if you like, I repeated, I dont think you can use the ladies, when I came out he had gone. Spouse said Im wrong, he’s allowed. googled and cannot see an answer?

Absolutely wrong.

Sorry to hear that OP

Until 5 minutes ago we knew that the baby change area doesn't trump the sex based nature of the space, just as the sex of a toddler doesn't determine which space parents use - mums don't automatically bring their male toddlers into the men's and there is no equivalent need for (boundary pushing) men to bring their daughters into the ladies.

A changing table is a really helpful add on to the original sex-based facility but, like many others on the thread, my husband and I have whipped the changing mat out of the nappy bag in hundreds of places if one doesn't exist...

Would this example make it clearer for your husband, OP?

I am a woman who has been travelling for hours at an airport. I really need a shower.

I see the sign below.

Some people on the thread (and possibly your spouse?) are effectively suggesting that this space is designed for me because I really need a shower...

And that if the sign was for a women's toilet with additional shower that would be the perfect place for a bloke to freshen up if there happened to be no shower in the nearest men's.

In the real world, as a woman, I would carry on looking for a woman's shower. If I asked and there aren't any for women but just for men I would probably complain about the sexism and ask them to rectify the situation as a matter of urgency. I would then try and do some sort of ablutions in the women’s toilets.

At no point would I think that this sign is for all those who need showers.

I'd be curious to know what your spouse thinks!

That's a fabulous example @ANewCreation.

The woman I’m replying to is not the OP. She was outraged a man had taken his little girl to use a cubicle. And left the door open. Glad you weren’t personally affected by having to see men using urinals as a small girl- but others may feel differently. Not something I would have wanted for my daughter.

not very pleasant for a small girl to have to go to the men’s loo. May even be urinals etc. maybe even a bit traumatic. Women’s loos have cubicles,

Do you want that same daughter to have the prospect of a male stranger coming into her single sex toilet when she's old enough to use them on her own?

My father would have never dreamed of going into a ladies toilets - what kind of man do you think would contemplate this?

Is it possible that in using the ladies toilets, this man is teaching his little girl that women should allow men to push boundaries and don't deserve single sex spaces?

Her dad is with her in the gents to keep her safe. When she's a bit older and going to the ladies alone, her dad won't be with her and she will need that space to be female-only.

I wasn't traumatised by the men using urinals when my dad had to take me into the gents when I was small. I was traumatised by the older boys cornering me in a mixed-sex changing room and taking turns to grope my vulva.

Men and boys are a risk to unaccompanied girls. They are not a risk to girls escorted by their fathers unless their fathers are themselves a risk, in which case that girl has a much bigger problem than seeing men using urinals.

Great example for everyone including spouse who is a woman actually and should be on side!

I'm deep in the nappy trenches and in my experience, it's really rare for baby changing facilities to only be in the ladies.

Most places seem to either put them in both toilets, or in the disabled loo (which is it's own issue, I guess).

The only time my DH has faced this problem, the staff told him to use the ladies. It's not ideal, but a baby can't sit in a dirty nappy because facilities aren't available 🤷‍♀️

While I respect your experience of feeling protected by your father in witnessing men using urinals, I'm not sure children who might be being abused by adult males would feel as comfortable being in that environment.

I've had 2 experiences of men trying to take small girls into the Ladies in the last few months which has got me thinking about this topic:

In Tescos a man shouted he was coming in with his grandaughter. I politely called back that wasn't OK (I was in a cubicle) and he shouted sweary abuse at me but left. I came out, found a security guard and he said that definitely wasn't OK (both the trying to coming in and also the abuse) and that he would find him to have a word.

In the local swimming pool and a bearded man (dressed in male clothes) bringing his toddler into the Ladies loo. He saw my body language and hesitated and I pointed out this was the Ladies and he backed away.

I had negative feelings about the situation and tried to find out the law and failed so this thread has been interesting. I did think about signposting them to the disabled loos but paused because of the points made on this thread. My take home has been that trans culture has shifted the Overton Window and men think it's fine to come into the Ladies now, which is not OK.

He is a man and that is enough reason for him to not be in women only spaces.

In this instance, the staff should close the ladies for the duration of the man using it, or at the very least station someone outside to warn women that there's a man inside with his baby.

And they should fit a baby change in the gents.

Women and girls who've been or are being abused by adult males will not appreciate having a man in the ladies loos, for the same reasons.

The answer to this problem is a family loo with baby change unit and enough space to take a pushchair. This could be an extra accessible loo on top of the legally-required accessible loo provision.

Especially the floors in men's toilets. They're really grim and no way would I have let my OH change our baby on the floor of one!

Absolutely 💯

That's the dad's problem to sort out without crossing boundaries.

I understand that, but I try to remember that the internet is just a far larger gathering of personalities than youd ever meet in a lifetime so the likelihood of arsedom is multiple times higher.
And its the weekend so its safe to assume many are plastered.
I must admit though its infuriating when you carefully explain your position and the situation several times with links, and people continue to misread it intentionally or not.