Spouse says men can use Ladies to change baby nappy?

[Bunty2727]

Im not a mum. I just went into the public toilet (to put up some single sex signs lol) and as I approached a man was just about to enter with a baby, I said excuse me I dont think you are allowed to use the ladies, he replied, pointing at the baby change sign, you can go in first if you like, I repeated, I dont think you can use the ladies, when I came out he had gone. Spouse said Im wrong, he’s allowed. googled and cannot see an answer?

You’re assuming that either there are other CLOSE BY places available that will allow changing families not on the ladies or that people will know.

I think you might be in fur a shock around that.

Of course you could do what I do, which is ringing every place before you go hoping someone has a reliable answer.
I often have to do that because I’m a wheelchair user.
And I know answers are often unreliable. Plus it’s taking time and is very frustating.
Im pretty sure the situation will the same, if not worse.

The reality is that no it’s not best practice to have baby changing facilities only on the men’s. It’s also not great when they are in the disabled loo either!
But it’s naive to say that ‘you JUST have to say x or ring y’ because it won’t be the case.

Btw What is needed is a campaign from parents (both sex) to ask for neutral, separated baby changing facilities.

Not an attitude that is basically saying ‘I don’t want them there, I’m washing my hands from it. Men have to sort out an answer’ because it’s not helpful for anyone.

I do appreciate that is often the case for wheel chair users/disabled people, but I think a full grown able bodied man might be very able to think take a pushchair/park nearby/go somewhere with a garden to put a mat down incase I get stuck. What's not okay js just assuming women's toilets are the go to just because there's no other option.

Fine.
Why aren’t all women doing it then if that’s easy and normal? Why did we ask for baby changing facilities in the first place?

Whats annoying me there is that we pushed for those facilities but the ‘why don’t they do X and Y, it’s easy’ attitude is basically saying men are not worth the same consideration (let alone the babies who might not appreciate to be bare bottom outside in the middle of winter/when it’s raining etc….)

I agree women had to fight for these facilities, and men need to as well if they don't want to be limited when they're out and about.

So, my take from this is, "It's not my problem, and I don't really care if disabled people are inconvenienced instead"

Actually I think women are inconvenienced too.

Because if it’s an issue for fathers to change their child, they are going to be less likely to do so. Instead of saying ‘yes of course’ theyll calculating how much more effort it’s going to take them. They’ll avoid taking their chikd with them abd then it’s mothers who loose.

The different, it’s worth to remember, is that women had no choice bit to go out with theur child.
Fathers have a choice. They know that. The regulator knows that too.
It’s unlikely to move quickly or easily if women do t put pressure too. If women just wait for men to do something they aren’t quite keen on and is costing them.
Waiting for men is again very naive

@Topofthemountain oh yes.
Different discussion but yes, it’s obvious that disabled people aren’t as important.

As far as I'm concerned the pre-teen's rights upthread trump adults in this case.

And we need more accessible toilets with changing stations. Until then, men are not welcome in women and girls spaces.

I would be fucking surprised if my husband ever thought it was appropriate to use the women's toilets for whatever purpose.

My position has always been, I don't want any males, not even my husband in the women's loos.

Places I've changed a nappy:

Back of my car, front of my car.
Corner of several play parks.
Quiet corner of several local parks.
In a pram.
Back of a church hall on a table.

If dippy dad hasn't the nous to come up with another idea, then that's his problem.

I avoid using baby change facilities even though I'm female, my two children have never liked being on the fold down tables for one reason or another and I've simply found other alternatives.

So if this is a huge problem, men need to agitate for better facilities, like women have done.

We also live in a time where most places have disabled / unisex facilities that have baby changes available. Dad needs to know where those are and that's on him, he could easily get that information from a Facebook group. It's called 'planning ahead'.

And what dad wants to go into a woman's changing room? None that I know of.

Because a rapist cares so much about the baby's comfort?
They'd just put the kid on the floor.

I’ve never seen a man changing a nappy in the women’s loos. I’ve never heard a man say “I just nipped into the women’s toilet because there was no baby changing in the men’s”. I’m 51 and thinking I must have been living under a rock.

When they're the ones confronting other men about SA and campaigning to keep women's spaces safe, then I could have some empathy for their hurt feelings. However, men who were doing this would have the awareness not be hurt that women are suspicious of them. They would understand and have empathy for women, because we have to live with that threat. Hurt feelings would not be a consideration for them.

www.burnhamnationwide.com/final-review-blog/illinois-equitable-restrooms-act-baby-changing-table-requirements

Here's an article that might be of interest.

Gosh, it's such a mystery isn't it?! If we are out in town and see either of these signs and need to change our baby's nappy, I wonder if it should be mine or my husband"s turn to do the honours?

I have not name changed, however you do that I dont know. I was simply trying to clarify the legal position on men using women’s public toilets for the purpose of changing a babies nappy. Many people have assumed many other things about my post, Im simply seeking clarification but have been jumped on by lots of people accusing me of this and that. I only wanted to know the legal position as I couldnt find it on google. I rarely post on here, this will be my last post as now I understand the toxity of the internet, even mumsnet. Bye

It really comes to something when we're fighting over whose needs are greater, a female child who is being sexually abused, a disabled person of any age, or a man needing to walk 5 mins to change a nappy. Child protection comes first. Always.

If men, or the leaders of this country, can't find a way to even THINK about not trampling over the rights of the first 2 groups, then I despair! I guess that's years of tory leadership for you. COME ON LABOUR. Sort this shit out.

X-post @Bunty2727 .

You are far from wrong in questioning this and I for one hope you will carry on challenging men in this situation!

Yes, some ladies toilets have joint sign for ladies and baby changing. Of course if there is baby changing he is allowed to go in. What’s he supposed to do otherwise??? Change nappy on a bench?

I agree, regret posting, will never post a question again, I only wanted to know if someone knew the legal position!!!!

Bunty27 · 14/07/2024 11:59
Actually if you read my post you would see I was asking a question for clarification, read before being nasty

This was one of the two replies I was referring to, I'm not sure quite what I have done to be at the end of your ire though.

Sorry you've wandered into a heated debate. IANAL but the I believe the legal position is complex. The laws are focused on the service provider (I.e. the person owning /managing the toilets) not the people using them.

There is no specific law that says a man can't go into a female toilet in general. But the law allows the people running it to say this space is for men only/women only. Then the responsibility is on those service providers to only allow the right people into each space.

In theory, if the way the toilets are set up is unreasonable or unfair, e.g. they provide a male only toilet but not a female only one, they could be breaking the law, but that would only be resolved if someone took them to court for sex discrimination, which doesn't tend to happen.

The legal position is clear- single sex spaces (based on biological sex) are entirely legal for all the reasons stated in this thread. The lines have got blurred due to a load of fuzzying of boundaries where sex is concerned and a weakness in society for standing up for the rights of others for fear of being labelled transphobic. If you're feeling motivated you could complain to the venue and report the situation to the council.