Used an 'all genders' bathroom today

[Dominoodles]

Sent to the theatre today and ended up in an 'all genders' bathroom. Walked in and came face to face with a man and we both instinctively apologised to each other. There was this instant understanding that we should not be sharing that space.

The toilet itself was awful. There was urine splattered all over the seat, a pool of urine on the floor around the base of the toilet, and no sanitary bin that I could see.

I can't say I felt unsafe, exactly - the only man in there was perfectly polite. But it didn't feel 'all genders'. It felt like I was in the men's and everything was covered in pee and nothing catering to women at all. I felt like an intruder, and that it was not a place for women.

I never gave any thought to the concept before but now I feel really uncomfortable about it and I don't really know how to put it into words. What are your thoughts on 'all gender' public bathrooms? I'd love to pick the brains of some ladies here.

But why? Why does everyone have to be uncomfortable and suffer indignity and less because of a tiny minority of people? And some women won't just be uncomfortable, they will just not be able to use those spaces or any spaces at all any more. Indulging this is not inclusive, it's indulging utter selfishness.

Third spaces. An option of mixed sex should be available. If it's utterly impossible due to space and there are only two sex based options then the mens becomes mixed space. Not the women's.

Ive used plenty. I'm Scandinavian and they're quite common, usually as single toilets that everyone share so it's not like you'd encounter people in there at all. They've rarely been particularly disgusting, and the ones that were, well the vibes usually fit that establishment in general 😅
Also through Europe in general I'd say they're more common and haven't had issues using them myself. Haven't used any in the UK that I can recall though.

😤 it’s disgusting that men and women are put in this position.
If we had had a Time Machine about 10 years ago to go forward to this year… surely we’d be horrified? …

What I don’t understand is that aid charities focused on the third world make a point of emphasising how important toilet privacy is - but apparently once we have other freedoms basic dignity goes by the wayside?

The only ones I like are the blocks with individual room which includes the sink etc. So it’s just like passing people on a corridor and then once inside the room you are totally private - floor to ceiling doors etc.

Still a danger of poorly aimed pre I suppose but the ones I used were at work and always very clean

Who are you blaming? The Tories or Labour?!

Nearly every coffee shop has them, no issues at all, just a single toilet for customer use, clean, basin inside and sanitary bin.

Because some men don't keep toilets clean is not a case for whether they are safe. In larger places there's no reason why they can't have single sex and gender neutral toilets but for small places with one or two I'm happy sharing. At the Taylor Swift concert women were using the gents anyway

In fact here (Bristol) the people audibly moaning in the inevitable queue on sunny days near the harbourside are men as it's an experience they are not used to, and yes us women laugh. Always been perfectly clean though.

BTW the hippodrome in Birmingham had the grottiest toilets in town 30 years ago, some things never change

I’m blaming you for voting either Tory or labour. Neither intended to do anything about it.

Not happy about them. Not found any that work for both sexes yet.
Neither is my husband- he feels uncomfortable invading women's space after spending many years avoiding them and respecting women's privacy.

The Watershed has kept the male and female loos, you have to walk through the bar to find them. At least they were still there in May!

We have some in the newest building where I work (HEI). They're the floor-to-ceiling door type with sinks inside.

I don't use them very often, but when I have, they have been reasonably clean. However, it does feel weird coming out of a cubical at the same time a man does.

I have to say, I don't particularly like them... And that was before a colleague told me about her experience of opening a cubical door and finding a man in there, who obviously hadn't locked the door properly. I did suggest to her that perhaps he had done that on purpose, but she assured me that he looked as equally shocked.

Sorry but I don't agree with all this. I was in tesco few weeks back, around the store I saw a man, (beard, hairy legs, etc) wearing a long black wig, summer dress, lipstick. He obviously a cross dresser/trans/??. I went into the toilets (only 1 cubicle available as the other was out of order) I had just got in the cubicle and heard this guy come in, only knew it was him as I heard him talking, and mumbling to himself (mans distinct deep voice). I actually froze. I couldn't have my wee, and to make it worse he then started trying my door, fiddling with the catch. I shouted at him and he left. Like wtf!!! I complained to tesco manager but they said there's nothing they can do about it, as he can choose which ever toilet he wants to go into. And so can I. 🫡. And no I didn't even have my wee after all that!! So mums please be careful sending your kids into toilets alone thinking they'll be fine. 🥰

,And some women won't just be uncomfortable, they will just not be able to use those spaces
Yes, but can I point out that my dh disliked it just as much as me.
And you're right thunderandtroughs. I didn't find out until later. And The Watershed is short of money. Building a mixed sex brand new loo seems like a bad idea

Everytime I've never used the toilets (in several different branches) in Morrisons they've been absolutely rank! 😣

I've just written to the Baltic in Newcastle about their toilets. There are a large number of female toilets on the ground floor but for some reason they smelt retch-inducingly bad - possibly the sanitary bins hadn't been emptied. The male and female toilets on the other floors have been turned into gender neutral toilets. They are really small with a couple of cubicles and a shared hand washing area. If there is someone else in there it feels ridiculously cramped and obviously it's not comfortable sharing that area with a bloke. I suggested that they install individual gender neutral toilets like the disabled toilet. I definitely think we need to say when we feel uncomfortable otherwise people will just carry on saying that no-one has complained about it.

The important thing to keep reminding everyone: It is not just discomfort. Some women cannot use mixed sex spaces. It's that simple. To bring men into women's spaces you have to exclude women. Those women pay taxes, they have rights, it is not ok for women to lose access to society and facilities in order to give men more choice.

This exclusion is not an issue that happens to known groups of men. I'm not minimising the discomfort, the indignity, it matters. For pete's sake how much do we all have to listen to endless ear banging about how the safety and privacy and dignity and feelings of trans people matter? Yes those things matter. And non trans people's matter just as much, they aren't less human or less important. If we're going to care about feelings then we're going to care equally about all.

But men are not actually excluded. This isn't a symmetrical problem. It never is.

Please complain about this. They need to be told again and again.

@Lovelyview I noticed in the Sage/glasshouse that now downstairs there are two sets of mens' cubicles, one of women's and one mixed sex. The second women's having been made mixed sex. I haven't been in to investigate. I want to write to them to ask what decision process was followed in determining that women needed only one single sex spaces Vs two for the men. I know the answer is that it's simply because the men's contains urinals so it was just easier to change the sign on the women's door. Zero thought to how that impacts women at all.

Absolutely. Especially as women take longer in the loo so the queues will be even longer. It's very unfair.

Why do men's smell so much more strongly?!
I used one at work (temporary toilets, long story) and even when they're cleaned I can tell which are the men's without them being labelled
It's like they're all dehydrated or something

Watershed ones aren't too bad. The space feels very open and the few times I have been the cubicles I used have been clean. But there is a restaurant nearby with completely enclosed cubicles off a long narrow corridor which I hate - it just feels unsafe and I am never comfortable letting my daughter's use them alone.

My opinion really depends on the set up but I always hate them if they are just the old loos with a new sign, so still have urinals in them.

4 different experiences

1 - sat in my cubicle could hear two men coming in. Tried to think what to do, did they sound safe? Realised I could be stuck there a long time if more men came in so took a deep breath and opened the door to have to walk past the man pissing in the cubicle next to mine with the door open. I didn't stop to wash my hands.

2 - same loos. Drunk man comes in. Demands aggressively to know why I'm in his toilet. He's missed the memo that they were missed sex. Bit scary but I'm good at diffusing situations.

3 - at a gig. Loos were down an empty staircase, down a hall. There were two bathrooms that were marked with what they contained cubicles, basins, urinals etc and left people to work it out. I think this creates a worse situation where only the men comfortable with crossing boundaries enter, so a man entering felt twice as scary than if simply mixed sex.
I found myself waiting for a woman to leave the music room and followed her, hoping she was going to the loo and not to smoke. Safety in numbers!

4 - another music venue with loos marked similar to above. I accidentally walked into the mixed sex loos with the urinals. One man washing his hands and another at the urinal. Both looked horrified. I quickly backed out and found the women's mixed sex loos.

I’ve gone to a gallery in London that had one of those corridors of GN loos. They were clean because it was a quiet day but it felt uncomfortable walking by all these men coming and going. I would have definitely not wanted my DD to have gone by herself when she was younger.

I’ve also used GN loos in Vancouver where you have to wash hands in an open and jointly used section. The loos stunk of wee and I felt uncomfortable touching up my makeup with blokes standing next to me.

It’s outrageous that we’re all (or many) made more uncomfortable, for both men and women, to cater to a ridiculous belief in gender as being more important than sex. And to jeopardise our dignity and safety in doing so.

Plus, European toilets are not the standard to aspire to either as I wasn’t impressed for my DD to have to walk past a row of men pissing in urinals before accessing a cubicle. Plenty of misogyny in Europe.

DH had to use mixed sex toilets at Wembley and he was very unhappy about it. He had to use the urinal because a sort of double queue had formed based on gender. He felt so uncomfortable that he had his genitals out with women and girls going in and out of the cubicles. A little bit on his own behalf but mainly because to him it’s very inappropriate to be exposed in front of random females, especially considering a majority of them were children and teens.

Why is making men wait and queue a good thing?