Used an 'all genders' bathroom today

[Dominoodles]

Sent to the theatre today and ended up in an 'all genders' bathroom. Walked in and came face to face with a man and we both instinctively apologised to each other. There was this instant understanding that we should not be sharing that space.

The toilet itself was awful. There was urine splattered all over the seat, a pool of urine on the floor around the base of the toilet, and no sanitary bin that I could see.

I can't say I felt unsafe, exactly - the only man in there was perfectly polite. But it didn't feel 'all genders'. It felt like I was in the men's and everything was covered in pee and nothing catering to women at all. I felt like an intruder, and that it was not a place for women.

I never gave any thought to the concept before but now I feel really uncomfortable about it and I don't really know how to put it into words. What are your thoughts on 'all gender' public bathrooms? I'd love to pick the brains of some ladies here.

Yes, like FGM. It is a barbaric crime, unless a Western girl or woman is being transed.

I can't stand the 'but your home has gender neutral toilets' like trotted out by one journalist on the Jeremy Vine show, or 'you use them on planes'.

Random strangers don't use your toilet or loiter about. The set up is not the same as a bathroom was various cubicles with a shared sink. If anyone leaves a mess that would dealt with immediately (and you can shout at whomever has done it).

I don't like using plane toilets but you go in, do your business and get out, one at a time. Whilst everyone sits and looks at you standing there like a plum if someone is already in. It's not the same as a communal mixed sex bathroom!

I went to a Sports event at a Uni recently as wanted to use the loo before leaving. They were all genders
As I went to go in DS 15 and his mates were going in, they looked horrified at me and DS asked what i was doing. I explained I wanted a wee and he said that they would wait outside until I had been. He also offered to go in first and check if "it was Ok"
So its not just women who don't like that set up

Such as?

Sound like they are literally two small rooms, though......rather than a communal block/access corridor with individual cubicles off it?

Any space that is private and enclosed in a public area is a place that will be exploited.
When I have spoken to RSPoA and researched archives, there was no data on where assaults took place in terms of types of toilet. So I started looking at evidence as the government haven’t produced any that I know of. Their consultation analyses for toilet designs does not go into it. The only reasoning in the government-supporting documents for enclosing toilets derives from this American designer quote: ‘A better solution, supported by many transactivists, and increasingly found in trendy nightclubs and restaurants, is to eliminate gender-segregated facilities entirely and treat the public restroom as one single open space with fully enclosed stalls.’

Obviously it’s a tricky one as you don’t want to publicise the negatives of enclosed spaces and somehow give people ideas. However, I will say that boys/men are exploiting the disabled toilets already - the version of enclosed self contained mixed sex toilets we have had for some time.

Examples in disabled toilets are many. There was a young girl who was taken into the disabled toilets of possibly the busiest station and raped and no one knew until she bravely later reported it. There was a boy who was seriously sexually assaulted in a disabled toilet in a shopping centre. And then there’s the possible prevention of deaths. There was a man found dead after a night of being in a supermarket disabled loo nearish me (no chance of my location being exposed as it’s not unusual). A woman was found dead after days in a portloo that had actually been taken away to another site.

Everyone is right to feel more vulnerable in these enclosed designs. The (last) government have taken the gaps out for privacy and dignity but have forgotten about safety and health.

Schools should be a place where no sexual assaults and rapes happen. But the statistics from 2015 show 1 child is raped every school day on average. The example in Parliament that was given was an enclosed store cupboard. So why are some schools creatIng more mixed sex enclosed private spaces since then? The anecdotes from schools shows sex (consensual or not) is happening in them. I think it’s down to schools becoming academised and being in control of designing their own facilities. And no one has any oversight on what’s going on. Because it certainly isn’t safe.

The new designs have acoustic properties on the doors to muffle sound. I would rather hear a cry for help than not hear a fart. The designs do not show any visibility gaps so you don’t know from outside the cubicle if someone needs help ie if someone is on the floor or how many people are in there. They have a system where someone can let themselves in from the outside the cubicle.

If Labour are aiming to half assaults on women, a practical way of doing it is preventing the assaults happening by good toilet design. And making them enclosed and private isn’t good design.

When was it decided to rip out all the existing Gents and Ladies loos and replace them with these hare-brained ideas? A poster upthread mentioned the Watershed in Bristol. I lived in the area for many years, and used to go to the Watershed regularly. But I'm not at all surprised to hear that it's gone that way. It's a very poor deal for women, most men don't like it much either, so it's all done for the apparent benefit of some small cohort who, frankly, never seem to be satisfied with any provision made for them?

It’s definitely humiliating
They are causing so much anxiety amongst the trans community too I would imagine who wouldn’t dream on walking in on women in ladies safe spaces …
It’s the wronguns who will exploit this …

I hate them . I'm in the cubicle and there's a queue of men right outside of where I am. Also toilets generally are a stinking mess. Does not benefit me at all.

Vote with your feet

Why not with our urethras?

If I was in the habit of going to the theatre (which I'm not because uncultured) I would take a bucket with me 😂

Males can pee on the seat and pee on the floor without causing significant nconvenience to other males. Women have to sit on the seat (with pee) and pull down their trousers risking them coming into contact with the pee on the floor. In toilets which are used frequently, unless they are cleaned between use, there is a significantly higher chance of discomfort to females than to males.

Posters who don’t think men’s public toilets are any more smelly and disgusting than women’s toilets, obviously have never cleaned a public male toilet themselves. I used to have to at work and it was terrible. The women’s were fine, compared.
I feel sick for cleaners who now have to deal with even more outlets for male piss everywhere with GN toilets

@Keeptoiletssafe have you written to the new Ministers with responsibilities for Women with his information?

I used one in an airport as I was desperate and couldn’t get to the women’s in time, but I also thought I’d test out for myself. I had a bag and couldn’t put it on the floor as it was wee wet, and the smell … It wasn’t a pleasant experience.

Men's loos are generally vile, and the only ones that aren't are usually the ones with a regular and effective cleaning regime, like motorway services and railway stations.

Yeah,

To be fair the smell isn't their fault. I think its a hormonal difference, combined with the way urinals work. But they do also tend to be a lot messier. The ONLY time women's toilets are likely to be grimmer is when its a much more heavily female and young children space so there is much heavier use on the women's toilets combined with small kids etc. Even then, I would say the men's still smells more strongly. Again, not men's fault. But its unpleasant and unnecessary to make them unisex.

In this set up, they're on a corridor just off the main café seating area.

There's a school in my area that also has mixed sex toilets. In that setting, they are on a corridor leading from one area to another. Each cubicle has a sanitary bin and is lockable.
Separating the area from the corridor is a standalone bank of handbasins (between the corridor and cubicles) with hand driers at each end.
Staff are around whenever the toilets are in use, I'm told.

Yes us too. And so did my family once we moved to a two loo house in 1963

‘another note, the 'b-b-but you have a gender neutral toilet in your hoooouuuuussseee!' is such a smooth-brained argument that I find it hard to believe that anyone ever trotted it out in all seriousness.’

…and it is irrelevant. We are talking about Public facilities , not domestic ones.

I will be writing again, but the shadow ones have mostly kept their roles so they have the information.

The information has been passed to the Health and Safety Executive who said gaps had gone in toilet designs due to the option of privacy and dignity. I would like a health and safety option back. It did say single sex toilets can have gaps in the doors and partitions as an option. However I would argue this is unclear as this is never stipulated, the ambulant single sex profile drawing shows the door down to the floor and the mixed sex fully enclosed designs can be used as single sex designs anyway. There will often be no option for health and safety.

Eventually, the numbers of incidents will lead someone to realise this might not be a good design solution. But I want to prevent these things happening to anyone else in the first place.

I've worked in pubs and restaurants and the men's toilets have always been absolutely rank. Men's piss is a truly disgusting smell, I'm not surprised it can be used as a wildlife deterrent.

Just remembered a 'survivor' type show years ago where people were put down in groups in isolated places to see how they got on. One group, mixed sex, was put down on a shore location and had set up home in some caves. When the guy in charge came to see how they were getting on, the first thing he did was turn to the men and say 'You've all been pissing right outside the cave, haven't you'. Bleugh.

https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/awful-gag-gross-yuck-dame-edna-gif-15847453

Ugh I used one at a workplace where I went to a meeting recently. It was so horrible. As you say OP, it was basically a men's toilet. Walk in, walk past a row of urinals, and there were two cubicles with normal toilets at the back. Lovely. Instead of a men's and a women's toilet, they now had two of these so nowhere away from men, and both spaces dominated by men's needs.

I found it absolutely gross, even though it was clean at the time, I just don't want to see urinals and even worse walk in when a man might be there, or have a man come in when I'm in the cubicle. They did that just because some people want to pretend the sexes don't exist or matter. Which there's zero evidence for.

That sounds absolutely revolting. So men can be pissing into a urinal and women are meant to walk past?