Used an 'all genders' bathroom today

[Dominoodles]

Sent to the theatre today and ended up in an 'all genders' bathroom. Walked in and came face to face with a man and we both instinctively apologised to each other. There was this instant understanding that we should not be sharing that space.

The toilet itself was awful. There was urine splattered all over the seat, a pool of urine on the floor around the base of the toilet, and no sanitary bin that I could see.

I can't say I felt unsafe, exactly - the only man in there was perfectly polite. But it didn't feel 'all genders'. It felt like I was in the men's and everything was covered in pee and nothing catering to women at all. I felt like an intruder, and that it was not a place for women.

I never gave any thought to the concept before but now I feel really uncomfortable about it and I don't really know how to put it into words. What are your thoughts on 'all gender' public bathrooms? I'd love to pick the brains of some ladies here.

That’s not exactly what I meant but thanks for taking it there. I’m definitely not excusing it but not everyone has access to good parenting or even a father figure ( or mother for that matter) that gives a shit and as we can’t go back and reeducate all the men that are not wiping up after themselves, I’m not sure what the answer is…apart from not allow them in our spaces. (Which I’m all for btw) When children are little there’s an excuse for a misdirection or a ‘not wiping’ up after yourself. Granted.

Fair enough but I live abroad and where I am, people are pretty fine with nudity in same sex environments but not mixed. They are not going to update the facilities though so at the moment women snd girls don't have anywhere they are happy to change snd the tw is also not happy because they claim it is their right (and no they don't feel at risk in the men's).

I haven't read every post, but this story reminded me of a reason WHY women are more twitchy about hygiene in toilets than men are.

https://news.sky.com/story/arsenic-lead-and-other-toxic-metals-found-in-tampons-study-says-13175436

It isn't that we are sweet cleanly little creatures by nature, but we know on a physical level that there are times we are vulnerable, and any women inserting a tampon or cleaning and reinserting a mooncup needs to be confident that they are not going to be introducing bacteria to a place where they can multiply dangerously fast and enter the bloodstream directly.

Even without the toxic heavy metals.

To be fair, the seat hoverers are likely to be worse in mixed sex loos, so they are likely to be messier than the women's AND the men's single sex options.

But all the talk of "men need to be taught to close the toilet door etc". They don't actually. If men as a group are happy weeing in public toilets with the cubicle door open then that's fine, let them do that. They don't need re-education. They just need their own toilets and women can have they own toilets and everyone is happy.

Or instead of trying to force a square peg in a round hole to appease a small number of people who believe in an ideology not many others believe in, just keep them single sex. It's worked for a long time. With additional neutral ones (if the building allows) for the cool people who don't mind and think male toilets are no worse than women's.

Only in your dreams.

I’m definitely not excusing it but not everyone has access to good parenting or even a father figure ( or mother for that matter) that gives a shit and as we can’t go back and reeducate all the men that are not wiping up after themselves,

It shouldn't need that. It should be implicit in society's expectations. In our dreams.

Silly enough that really I shouldn't dignify it with an answer.

Men are desperate to be in women's toilets peeing with women, aren't they? That's the root of all this. Be honest. Offer a third space and it won't do because there are no women in there with their knickers down doing something validating and thrilling for men.

Women are desperate to NOT have to be used by said men, or subjected to the indignity of men being present.

Women delighted to pee and undress with men can go and use third spaces or join the men in the men's provision, no one wants to stop them.

And I really have to wonder about someone who spends so much time trying to shame and coerce women into enabling men at their own expense, and has no respect whatsoever for women's consent.

Maybe it should in your utopian society but it’s not like that in the real world so in the meantime I would like my female toilet spaces back.

I agree.

Haven't read the whole thread, possibly repeating what had been said - not to focus on men's perspective, but I do think that a lot of men, particularly older men, feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with women as they feel that women are entitled to their own space. Certainly, this has been my experience any time there has been mixed facilities.

Link copied from another thread, just in case there are people who still doubt some creepy men having erotic fixation on bathrooms (in this case including showers, so actual bathrooms).

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ex-student-avoids-jail-over-placement-of-mobile-phones-in-bathroom-of-shared-house-1649021.html

Quite. There is a culture of behaviour/etiquette in men's loos that presumably most men are comfortable with. The lack of privacy at urinals is the 'price' they pay for rarely having to queue.

I don't think men will take well to a culture of regular queuing. A few months ago I was taking photographs at a heritage railway station when a train came in that had a carriage serving real ale. There are 4 toilets per carriage on heritage trains (unlike modern trains!). Several men got off at the station ... and straight into a long queue for the station toilet because the station toilets were being renovated and only two cubicles, for both sexes, were open. The men looked very uncomfortable in the queuequeue.

There was only one woman in the queue. It occurred to me that any women who'd been in the real ale carriage would probably have used a toilet on the train if they needed to wee at the point of leaving, because as women we build our behaviour around the likelihood of queues in public toilets, whereas men aren't in the habit of doing that because usually they don't need to.

This. I did not know about the new design. What wallies design these things? Men?

It would appear so. This is the single sex design. I can’t understand why the toilet always has to be on the centre line then they put the sanitary bin in so it can brush against your leg or clothes. Maybe the other side space is for a loo brush but it’s not shown.
However, all may not be lost! The men’s loos will hopefully start to have more sanitary bins in too. Theres campaigns for men to be able to get rid of their disposable products for prostrate problems. Which is great as it can cause a lot of distress, and I predict a positive side effect will be to correct the relative positioning of bin to toilet seat in future.

I was having just this discussion with a reasonably elderly male friend - he’s 76. A gay man so has seen lots of different perspectives on life, as it were. Totally a male version of a terf ( whatever that is).

We were talking about his recent hospitalisation and he emphasised how important single sex wards were for men and their dignity. Also, that he didn’t want to make women feel uncomfortable ( he’s the loveliest man I know).

It's pretty clear that many, even most, people are not happy with unisex spaces so it's really irrelevant whether some people are OK with them. There has to be a solution that works for everyone.

I used an all genders changing room today (sea lanes in Brighton). It was bloody awful.

Yes there were separate cubicles to change but a mixed sex open changing area, mixed sex toilets, mixed sex showers. It just feels really wrong walking around a changing area half naked in a towel with men doing the same.

Nobody wants this setup do they?

But all that comes as an additional expense to business. New builds will have that built in for sure. In the meantime parents train your sons toilet etiquette

Stop saying bathroom. It’s a toilet. We’re not Americans.

Watershed is one of the few in Bristol big enough to have a women's too at least (round a corner down a corridor, but still).

Exchange is the worst - 'all genders' signs slapped on the men's and women's upper winding set of twisty stairs far away from anyone else. I couldn't even work out which one used to be The men's, as I've always has seen places that have done the old sign change, every one just uses the toilets as they would have before.!

It’s difficult to have a discussion on here because anyone can be posting or just watching. I am uneasy discussing some evidence and stories because I don’t know for what purpose people may read these boards. I just want everyone to be as safe as possible. Which means some people’s wishes should come below everyone’s needs.

I'm Scottish and I've always used bathroom.

If there’s no bath in it it’s a toilet.

To be honest I couldn't care less what they're called as long as there are single sex provisions.