Do women in the U.K. know or care about the threat to women’s and girls rights now they’ve voted labour?

[Heylo]

i know the tories record on public services are abysmal and bar some genuine believers like Kemi Badenoch the tories would likely go the trans route if they thought it would buy them votes. But, currently it’s the tories who offered to protect women and girls from the trans madness. My question is - which women voted in trans loving, women - hating Labour?

we can look forward to -

1. continued gender ideology being pumped out in schools
2. conversion ban - you better hope your child doesn’t start questioning their gender out loud because TRA ridden schools will be referring them to gender clinics and socially transitioning them now they have a mandate
3. same sex attracted lesbians (myself included) it’s completely game over. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Trans identified males and their female allies have already closed down every women only night. Same sex attracted women are now labelled bigots. We are no longer welcome in London’s LGBT soup community
4. prisons - what happens to vulnerable women? They are already disbelieved and dismissed. Now they have to endure the staring and various forms of sexual harrassment that goes with being incarcerated with men

i can only hope our political landscape mirrors America and in the same way Trump will be voted back in this year, we will have The Tories being led by Kemi back in in 4 years time.

omg I can’t believe we have to kiss goodbye to women’s rights - for the next four years

back to my original question. Apart from TRA idealouges, why have women voted these clowns in? Is it that they prioritise the Tories terrible record on public services over this? Do some women not see it as a huge issue? would love to hear from some posters who voted Labour.

Thanks & stay safe out there, as women we have woken up to a a dark chapter in history today

60% turnout.

Labour's % share of the vote increased by only 2%, even though they won a lot more seats. 35% of the total vote was for Labour.

Isn't the real issue there that there weren't staff keeping an eye on the changing rooms making sure that stuff wasn't happening in the first place? This time it was men, next time it could be girls from a local high school bullying someone they don't like.

My feminism is fully intersectional, thanks. It just doesn't include men.

Not when you tell other women that their experiences and priorities are ‘personal anecdotes’ and as so don’t matter it isn’t.

“what is the nuanced conversation that will prevent 1 more female person of any age to be harmed in allowing gender identity to continue to be prioritised over sex?”

Well not the one you’re/were having, clearly! Yet another shouting down from someone ready unable and unwilling to budge. No room for complexity or nuance there. I’m bowing out now.

But what makes them women rather than men, in the first instance, is their sex.
A woman is an adult human female.

Disability is not an identity....it is a physical fact.

The phrase "nothing more powerful than" is interesting in this context isn't it.

Men accessing women's spaces, sports, prisons and shortlists are exercising more power than the women who aren't allowed to object. I daresay the men would say they are just living safely, openly and authentically.

Women want to live safely, openly and authentically too. We want spaces that are for women only as one way of being able to do that. There is a conflict of desires. Women's privacy and dignity, sporting achievements, and safety get compromised when men are allowed into women's spaces.

Would you be happy with a health care provider who presented with an Andrew Tate paperweight on his desk? Would you be happy with a healthcare provider who presented wearing a T shirt with a racist slogan?

Trans women have disordered ideas about women. It's axiomatic. It's impossible for a man to believe he is a woman because of how he thinks without his having very messed up ideas about women, how we live (clue: in all.sorts of different ways), how we think (clue: in all sorts of different ways) and how we differ from men (clue: in the body, not the mind, but also because of our experiences and challenges of having that type of body in this society).

So while I might be comfortable with a male healthcare professional who wears a dress and makeup but fully sees himself as a man, I'd not be comfortable with the same person in the same clothes if he believes he is a woman. Not because of how he sees himself, but because of how he sees women.

This. Sexism and misogyny run through gender identity ideology like a stick of rock.

You are putting words into my mouth.

I absolutely have a problem with violence against women perpetrated by trans identifying men and I don't want them to invade single sex spaces for women. I am a GC feminist.

But I also care about violence perpetrated against women by non transgender identifying men, which is the overwhelming majority of violence perpetrated against women because non transgender identifying men are the overwhelming majority of men. And that violence has flourished under the Tories who have dismantled so many of the institutions and services that exist to protect women against violence and improve society for them.

It seems to me that some Tory supporting GC feminists ONLY care about violence against women when it is perpetrated by transgender identifying men and that does not make sense to me.

Weigh it up the sources - the New York Post OR The Parliament Magazine.

NY- POST a gossip site owned by Murdoch

"The Post has been criticized since the beginning of Murdoch's ownership for sensationalism, blatant advocacy, and conservative bias. In 1980, the Columbia Journalism Review stated that the "New York Post is no longer merely a journalistic problem. It is a social problem—a force for evil." - Lifted from Wiki

Know which source I'm likely to take credible info from.

Great post @Ereshkigalangcleg

The early women's movement was predicated on the struggles of lesbian women.....The early pioneers were lesbians.

No, it isn't. That's a strawman fallacy.

The issue was that men were allowed into a space where women would be undressed. Which is the issue that has been corrected.

@Heylo As a disabled woman with disabled DC to support, there was no way I was going to vote Tory. The spite and vitriol they feed about people like me means they can get away with making policies to harm disabled people.

The things you mentioned in your OP are so much less of a priority to me than being able to feed my DC. You can not understand what it is like to rely on a state benefits system which can be removed without warning, unless you live like this. It is dehumanising and worrisome every single day.

That is why I voted labour.

HTH.

I voted for Labour as a GC feminist. The world does not revolve around this for me. In my opinion there are other, much more important issues, and Labour’s policies on those align with my priorities. Labour is not the perfect party for me, by far- I consider myself politically homeless- but I do agree with a number of their policies. And for me, anything other than a Labour vote was a vote for the Tories, and it was most important to me to get them out.

“We've seen it on here”? So on an anonymous forum where anyone could claim to be anything?
Have you encountered it in real life though? Biological women accused of being trans because they’re ‘not feminine enough’?

I can't really answer the question until you tell me what "such a variety of female-only single-sex spaces" you are talking about (other than those covered in these posts ie toilets, changing rooms and prisons). If you list off the others you are thinking about I could respond in relation to each. If it helps I also disagree with bio males competing in female sports categories if that is what you are thinking about. I fundamentally disagree with how LGBT issues have been taught about in schools though I understand that the national curriculum is changing. What other things not covered by the above are you thinking about? If you are talking about wider things like disabled toilets then I don't think that is relevant here as it applies to vulnerable people of both sexes.

I object to any radical or extreme behaviour whether by trans activists or by radical or extreme feminists - both are intolerant of others and do not take into consideration that their reality is not necessarily everyone else's reality! Neither take the interests of the general population into account. I don't think your intolerance of all trans people is helpful. Throwing around "rapist mindset" is inflammatory, dangerous and pretty appalling, and won't lead to win-win solutions being agreed.

How ridiculous. I never said they didn't matter, I said they were irrelevant to the principle of the debate. In exactly the same way my own experiences are. Conversely, it matters not a single jot that I have had no direct negative experience with men in women's spaces.

The principle is 'no men in women's spaces'. Not 'no men in women's spaces, except when Sarah lets them because her 'lived experience' is different'. Or 'except for John because we can't invalidate his feelings'. This is a policy issue and the very nature of policies is that they are very rarely nuanced because that doesn't work.

Who is ‘shouting down’ people? Asking questions and seeking clarity on where people’s opinions lead to is not ‘shouting down’. Nor is pointing out that there may be flaws in the logic being used.

’Shouting down’ is just another example of the hyperbole you used on page 22 when you tried to portray my question to you as my ‘being angry’ and then you politicised people who have differences in sex development to score political points.

If you cannot describe what you are here telling others they should be seeking - nuance, then maybe you need to consider that your arguments are weak and based on flawed logic and no or low evidence. Yet you continue to resort to what is effectively name calling by ascribing anger and now ‘shouting down’.

No simple answer, but they manage it for people who go through sex change operations so I would assume a similar aoet of process should be considered.

But why does the rights of any 1 group trump those if others?

You say the rights of men don't trumpnthise of women, which I agree with but for those women born into a male body who desperately want to be considered a woman why do their rights not matter?

The whole issue is too complicated to unpick on an Internet forum but my point is everyone has the right to be who they truly are without judgement or prejudice...unless they are trans it seems.

Transwomen are male by very definition - regardless of their personality, 'niceness' or whatever. Women's spaces and services and sports are for women - as in female people. To preserve and protect their dignity and privacy in certain kinds of situation.

Those with trans identities, especially if male, can live and let live in their own dedicated spaces. If you are actively colonising a space that belongs to someone else, it is not really 'live and let live' is it?

Disability is not an identity....it is a physical fact.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/identity

Your identity is who you are. It isn’t a belief.

I didn’t say ‘I identify as severely disabled’ I said “my identity as severely disabled…”

I am a woman. That is a part of my identity. I am disabled. That is another part. They are both equal physical facts.

But what makes them women rather than men, in the first instance, is their sex.

Who are these ‘them’?

A woman is an adult human female.

I am aware of that fact thanks.

My apologies when I said "cis" men it would have been clearer to say non transgender identifying men - though that is a mouthful and I did place "cis" in quotations for a reason.

Because them being "considered a woman" implies consent and active participation from everyone else, doesn't it?

People can feel what they like in the privacy of their own mind, or home; but when it involves other people - they cannot compelled to believe in your version of yourself - especially if it runs counter to observable reality, and at their own cost/expense.

It's not complicated.

They can ask to be considered a woman and people can respect that. But they are not women and they cannot enter women only spaces. They can campaign for own spaces or use the existing, male spaces.

You expect a young female retail worker to step in when aggressive men start living their authentic lives of abusing women?