Do women in the U.K. know or care about the threat to women’s and girls rights now they’ve voted labour?

[Heylo]

i know the tories record on public services are abysmal and bar some genuine believers like Kemi Badenoch the tories would likely go the trans route if they thought it would buy them votes. But, currently it’s the tories who offered to protect women and girls from the trans madness. My question is - which women voted in trans loving, women - hating Labour?

we can look forward to -

1. continued gender ideology being pumped out in schools
2. conversion ban - you better hope your child doesn’t start questioning their gender out loud because TRA ridden schools will be referring them to gender clinics and socially transitioning them now they have a mandate
3. same sex attracted lesbians (myself included) it’s completely game over. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Trans identified males and their female allies have already closed down every women only night. Same sex attracted women are now labelled bigots. We are no longer welcome in London’s LGBT soup community
4. prisons - what happens to vulnerable women? They are already disbelieved and dismissed. Now they have to endure the staring and various forms of sexual harrassment that goes with being incarcerated with men

i can only hope our political landscape mirrors America and in the same way Trump will be voted back in this year, we will have The Tories being led by Kemi back in in 4 years time.

omg I can’t believe we have to kiss goodbye to women’s rights - for the next four years

back to my original question. Apart from TRA idealouges, why have women voted these clowns in? Is it that they prioritise the Tories terrible record on public services over this? Do some women not see it as a huge issue? would love to hear from some posters who voted Labour.

Thanks & stay safe out there, as women we have woken up to a a dark chapter in history today

What on earth are you talking about?

The definition of woman isn't some abstract concept, divorced from reality (unless you're a man who claims to be one).

Out of interest, how many trans women would you be happy taking up space on female-only quotas in companies and government? Are you happy for men who identify as women to speak for all women? How much understanding of the female experience do you think a biological man actually has? How do you feel about trans women insisting on joining pregnancy, breast feeding or menopause groups, even though they'll never experience any of those things? What about the recent thread on MN about a 55 year old trans woman wanting to join a women-only walking group for the under 30s? You okay with that too?

Or when Labour ditched the Tories Section 21 no fault eviction notices and reintroduced protection for renters against unscrupulous landlords. Oh no they didn’t do that either.

Or what about the time when they got rid of tuition fees for students….

Oh hang on wait a minute didn’t Labour introduce tuition fees in the first place?

Ok. thanks for clarifying.

Can you provide the evidence then that the group of male people you are supporting accessing female single sex spaces have either a lower risk for safeguarding risk assessment than the general male UK population? Or even better, have the same level of risk or less than the general female UK population?

And if you need the significance of this pointed out, if you are supporting this group of male people to access female single sex spaces, why should this group be given special rights over all other male people in the UK?

"Are you also angry at and afraid of people born intersex? That’s a whole other issue that never seems to come up."

I am not angry. And your attempt to portray me as angry is not only hyperbolic but it is emotionally manipulative.

And we discuss people with differences of sexual development quite often on threads where it is relevant. Where is it relevant here in this discussion?

Why have you compared people with a medical condition that leaves very few of them needing extensive diagnosis to categorise the sex of their body to male people who claim to be women?

Why do you think a person with a 'micro penis' should be treated as being a female person? Why do you think that going through male puberty would mean that that person would not be highly likely to be identified by female people as being a male person?

You have just leveraged people's medical conditions to score political points. That is hardly kind nor is it relevant.

Interesting that you mention Top Shop changing rooms.

Are you aware of the video on social media by a young woman traumatised by her experience in a Primark changing room? If not, I suggest you research it.

Primark made their changing rooms 'inclusive' i.e. unisex. Made no other changes, gaps under and above the dividing walls, curtains so obviously no locks.

A group of young men repeatedly opened the curtain on her whilst she was changing. They weren't saying they were women, they didn't have to because spaces in which women and girls were vulnerable in a state of undress were opened to men in the name of inclusivity.

The young woman was crying and warning other women and girls not to go into the changing room alone.

As a result Primark changed their policy back to single sex changing rooms. But, how many women and girls did that happen to who didn't make a social media video? Why were changing rooms made unisex in the first place without any consideration of the impact on women and girls?

This issue isn't 'the trans issue', it's about the safety, dignity and privacy of women and girls (female people) - their right to have spaces without male people. Including male people in female spaces never benefits female people, it benefits certain types of male people.

This idea that men like Petra De Sutter are women comes from having a very sexist perspective of women.

Hence why I asked for clarification. I didn't want to make assumptions.

No, many of those I might have an issue with. Others not.

And I’m not really happy for anyone to speak for all women, to be honest.

I’m calling for nuance and conversation.

Lived experience is important though.

As a mixed race person - whose family came up against it racially (inter racial - catholic, whole community without much exposure to non white) this feels like the challenges to people of colour being educated in the same space - back in the day, I could imagine the same kinds of responses

"I don't have to interact with THEM, just look at the news"...

" I don't have to speak from first experience, just look at the news"

Not only are you using your energy and time to perpetuate the spin, but you are missing out on the opportunity to grow and learn. I wonder where else this lack of critical thinking and engagement with the world and it's people shows up for you?

Ah yes, Spain:

https://nypost.com/2024/03/06/world-news/spanish-soldiers-changing-gender-to-female-for-added-benefits/

I meant some inappropriate stuff earlier in primary and more graphic stuff in later primary and early secondary.

www.removepaywall.com/https:/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/09/ofsted-chiefs-warning-explicit-sex-education-lessons

@Humtum This is a new low! I have 'lived experience' (twee oxymoron as it is) of all sorts of things. None of which I have mentioned and therefore none of which you have any knowledge. As does everyone - shocker!!

Are you suggesting that I cannot object to men entering women's spaces simply because I have not had to use the loo next to a transwoman? (Which was the question the poster asked).

I intentionally choose to argue on the basis of principle, rather than personal anecdote, because the latter really has very little meaning. To change things at a policy level, we need to think at a policy level not just recite our own grievances.

I know who Petra De Sutter is. Why should I be googling them?

You also did not answer my question in the post you quoted.

Here is another one? Why do you dismiss the socialist and left wing feminists in the UK who were some of the first people to be raising the alarm that there were significant issues here? Some of those are in the video :

https://www.youtube.com/live/UFEOAsjkeZ4?feature=shared

I wonder why they have been mentioned on a feminist board.

Lived experience is exactly why I changed my mind on this issue. I used to say TWAW because that's what I was told and I didn't have any motivation to be critical of this at the time. Then as I got older and personally encountered a number of these males in various different circumstances, this illusion crumbled and I understood I'd been lied to.

A Trans ID Man who is a Gynae. That’s all I need to know about him 🤢

@BeachParty are you going to answer my questions?
How many trans women is it ok to have on a football team? 11?

So we now have to have 'lived experience' of something to be able to pass comment? Wild.

Loving how half this thread is about having an argument about an either/or thing where we have to prioritise economic or safety concerns.

Women really like to shoot ourselves in the head.

Why can't we demand both? Why must we always compromise, with men being the beneficiaries of that?

Seriously? Why are we actually having this argument and having such low standards and expectations?

We need to stop just accepting that this is what we should just put up with and we have to make these type of compromises!

Its like the whole issue with women's maternity care and the attitude that we should just suck up poor treatment and be grateful to be alive and the discouragment on here about complaining because the staff have it so hard which has been here since I started on MN many years ago. Only for us to have a series of maternity scandals emerge that have been going on for years.

WE ARE WORTH MORE THAN THIS.

This also doesn't mean shitting all over people who identify as trans. We have to work on the concept of third options for sensitive areas, to cater for the different needs of different vulnerable groups. This is part of the issue - this idea of treating women and transwomen as the same, means that the unique vulnerabilities and needs of each group get overlooked. Neither group benefits from it, in certain situations.

The priority is to recognise where there are particular problems and sensitivities and instead of trying to pretend they don't exist, or saying another unconnected problem is more important, TO ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THE AREAS OF CONFLICT PROPERLY.

But no. Women are fucking useful idiots.

but you are missing out on the opportunity to grow and learn

What can a group of males who feel entitled to use women's spaces against the will of most women teach us that we don't already know? Ie that many men of all identities don't respect women.

I think my frustration is the mentality that women should just accept the breadcrumbs left over after all the other policies that don't consider them have all been decided.

Mine too @RedToothBrush

the only inclusive sexuality is to be pansexual

I’ve seen this argument before, it’s totally batshit imo.
I also wonder how it can be reconciled with the concept of consent?
If someone’s truly ‘pan’, can they exclude anyone at all from their dating pool, for whatever reason?

It is not an accurate comparator.

What your family experienced was wrong. It was illegitimate discrimination based on race. There was absolutely no legitimate reason for them to be excluded from being educated with the rest of the UK population.

You seem to be confusing illegitimate discrimination with legitimate discrimination though. It is a legitimate discrimination to exclude all male people from any female single sex space. Not based on how they look. But based on the history of sex crime patterns of ALL male people. Singling out a sub group of male people from the UK population for special treatment to access female single sex spaces requires not only special treatment for that sub group, but it also ignores the needs for female people to have privacy and dignity, not just safety.

If you support these male people accessing female single sex spaces, can you show us the evidence please that the group of male people has a lower risk of committing sex offences than the general male population. Even better, that that group you support has the same or lower risk of committing sex offences than the general female UK population.

Thankfully, we at least have the Equality Act in the UK that allows for legitimate discrimination based on protected characteristics. What your family experienced should never have happened.

I think there will be a lot of noise but we are through the other side on the Trans issue. Globally not just in the UK.

I think so too tbh. I certainly hope so!