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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So how did the party of women do?

241 replies

Hugesunflower · 05/07/2024 07:01

How many votes did they get in the areas they stood? BBC isn’t giving a breakdown of results.

How many voted do you have to get to reclaim your deposit?

OP posts:
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11
Pourquoise · 07/07/2024 13:10

SuffragetteFromGladiators · 07/07/2024 13:05

Not sure where I said I was pointing and laughing at their share of the vote @OldCrone . It's undeniable that other people have been. Why would anyone want to give their opponents that kind of ammunition?

There's a joke at Kellie-Jay Keen/POW's expense on BBC's Breaking The News episode from yesterday at 5min 30sec.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00210zn?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Breaking the News - Election Special: Janey Godley, Liam Withnail, Tiff Stevenson and Scott Agnew - BBC Sounds

Des Clarke hosts an election special of Scotland's award-winning satirical news quiz.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00210zn?origin=share-mobile&partner=uk.co.bbc

SuffragetteFromGladiators · 07/07/2024 13:11

A number of prominent GC politicians were ousted in this election - not least Joanna Cherry and Miriam Cates. Experienced hands like theirs would be an asset to PoW if they could be brought on board. OK right now they're losers, but times change and having seasoned operators on board could only be a good thing for the party. Imagine how much more coverage PoW would get with Cherry at the helm.

OldCrone · 07/07/2024 13:18

SuffragetteFromGladiators · 07/07/2024 13:05

Not sure where I said I was pointing and laughing at their share of the vote @OldCrone . It's undeniable that other people have been. Why would anyone want to give their opponents that kind of ammunition?

I don't get this thing about pointing and laughing. In my constituency the LibDem got just over 400 votes (similar to some of the POW candidates) and lost their deposit. Does that make the LibDems a laughing stock, or just that candidate? They never do well here, and sometimes don't even bother to stand. The candidates always seem very young, and I think the party just puts them up for a no-hoper seat for the experience.

I'd never laugh at a candidate for actually having the courage to get up there and stand. What sort of person does, and why should their childish behaviour matter to anyone?

OldCrone · 07/07/2024 13:37

Wow this is news. So the POW is a retaliation to WEP? Why hasn't this been said before?

Probably because it's something you just made up.

CleftChin · 07/07/2024 14:18

I don't get this either - do we point and laugh at people who come last in Marathons, or the people who don't get a job that was advertised? How is it helpful or progressive (or kind) to do so?

Just because someone doesn't do something how you would, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Is this the same attitude I've seen in the name board where unless you're naming your child something utterly conventional the "they'll be bullied at school for it" people pop up? Presumably because they bullied some kid with an unusual name themselves.

The UK culture is one where we don't hammer down the nail that's poking out, we don't mind people getting up and doing stuff, and normally we positively encourage the underdog - so why is everyone being so snippy about KJK?

I can only think it's because she does get under their skin, and frankly, if you're the sniffy type who only wants things done your way or not at all, you need a bit of that kind of irritation.

mrshoho · 07/07/2024 14:25

SuffragetteFromGladiators · 07/07/2024 13:11

A number of prominent GC politicians were ousted in this election - not least Joanna Cherry and Miriam Cates. Experienced hands like theirs would be an asset to PoW if they could be brought on board. OK right now they're losers, but times change and having seasoned operators on board could only be a good thing for the party. Imagine how much more coverage PoW would get with Cherry at the helm.

I'm sorry this reads like some sort of teenage fantasy.

Ineverlose · 07/07/2024 14:28

It's not about pointing or laughing. It's about a genuine desire to point out the massive tactical mistakes in the hope that the same mistakes aren't repeated

OldCrone · 07/07/2024 14:30

What tactical mistakes?

Ineverlose · 07/07/2024 14:30

mrshoho · 07/07/2024 11:20

Fgs listen to yourselves. Let someone else start a party (either of you for starters) if that's how you think it should be done. KjK is doing just fine how she is. The election campaign went exactly how she wanted it to go. What do you want? For her to dissappear into the background?

This is where I got the idea that POW was some sort of retaliation to WEP - out of the mouth of a POW candidate @OldCrone

CleftChin · 07/07/2024 14:35

?? How on earth does that quote relate to WEP??

I'm not sure the use you think armchair criticism from someone not part of POW is? I'd say it's doubly hard to criticise someone's tactics when you don't actually know what they were, and can only see some of what's gone on from the outside.

I mean, I'm sure I could think of some nasty things to say about Tom Daley's diving, but since I'm not a diver, or privy to any knowledge about Tom Daley and his training, it would come across as ridiculous

OldCrone · 07/07/2024 14:40

Ineverlose · 07/07/2024 14:30

This is where I got the idea that POW was some sort of retaliation to WEP - out of the mouth of a POW candidate @OldCrone

I'm not a POW candidate.

OldCrone · 07/07/2024 14:42

Ineverlose · 07/07/2024 14:28

It's not about pointing or laughing. It's about a genuine desire to point out the massive tactical mistakes in the hope that the same mistakes aren't repeated

Point them out to KJK then. She's not on mumsnet.

Christinapple · 07/07/2024 14:52

OldCrone · 07/07/2024 13:37

Wow this is news. So the POW is a retaliation to WEP? Why hasn't this been said before?

Probably because it's something you just made up.

Wouldn't surprise me. It's no secret the LGB-Alliance was set up specifically in retaliation to Stonewall.

Wumblewimble · 07/07/2024 14:55

If it's true What's wrong with that

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2024 15:04

Ineverlose · 07/07/2024 12:17

Wow this is news. So the POW is a retaliation to WEP? Why hasn't this been said before? I saw it said again and again that the POW was to highlight the crazy of the Greens and Labour etc, I've never heard it was to go up against the WEP.
I think that's a great idea, actually.
So why didn't KJK stand in a constituency that had a WEP candidate? Were all 4 of those consituencies covered? Then, again, when she had to change (from the dubious decision in Brighton) why didn't she choose a WEP constituency?
Also what on earth does this have to do with working class/middle class?? I'm working class but I'm also strategic - it's not even a tiny bit connected. And lastly, I can't quite get over how idiotic it is for people to presume everyone who comments on here is sitting around doing nothing; there are clearly lots of well informed people here

"So the POW is a retaliation to WEP?"

No, of course not. The rest of your speculation is therefore irrelevant.

I was pointing out that others have been bemoaning the failure of WEP whilst trashing POW, which begs comparison of origins, attitudes to sex vs gender, honesty and electoral outcomes.

SuffragetteFromGladiators · 07/07/2024 15:10

mrshoho · 07/07/2024 14:25

I'm sorry this reads like some sort of teenage fantasy.

Why's that? PoW will need to be bold if they're going to have any major impact - why wouldn't they want to bring recognisable people who agree with their core message onboard? Or are you saying the likes of Cherry wouldn't touch them because they're lacking credibility somehow?

Nobody had really heard of UKIP or took them seriously until they got Kilroy, and then suddenly they got loads of coverage. PoW need their own Kilroy. If not Cherry, who?

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2024 15:15

Ineverlose · 07/07/2024 12:22

Why does everyone keep on going on about 4 months? It just makes you look unreliable and even maybe dishonest. This party was planned for well over a year, it was just officially 4 months

Try researching how to start a political party and then you will understand why official recognition is a significant point in time.

"It makes POW look unreliable and maybe even dishonest".

What a bizarre suggestion.

Is there a specific time that political parties have to exist before, to your mind, they stop looking "unreliable and maybe even dishonest".

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2024 15:27

Pourquoise · 07/07/2024 13:10

There's a joke at Kellie-Jay Keen/POW's expense on BBC's Breaking The News episode from yesterday at 5min 30sec.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00210zn?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

And here was me expecting the BBC to be rooting for the plucky Party of Women! What a shocker! 🙄

CleftChin · 07/07/2024 15:27

Nobody had really heard of UKIP or took them seriously until they got Kilroy, and then suddenly they got loads of coverage. PoW need their own Kilroy. If not Cherry, who?

ROFL - comparing Kilroy to Cherry and suggesting Kilroy was why UKIP was taken seriously (!).

The permatanned one brought publicity to UKIP, not political credibility. The equivalent would be bringing Jeremy Vine on board, not Joanna Cherry.

SinnerBoy · 07/07/2024 15:46

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · Today 11:18

I am. I stood for Party of Women in Newcastle upon Tyne East & Wallsend.

Good for you and thanks for explaining about the free mailshots. I'm in your next door constituency and voted for Kelly Oliver Dougal. I didn't expect any of yous to win, but I was hoping that some deposits would be retained.

I hope you all have better luck next time, after more time to organise and canvass.

SuffragetteFromGladiators · 07/07/2024 15:48

Not saying he's why UKIP got taken seriously (though a lot of people forget that he wasn't always just an orange joke), but he's why they got given attention. A party's got to be visible to be taken seriously in the first place.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2024 15:49

SuffragetteFromGladiators · 07/07/2024 15:10

Why's that? PoW will need to be bold if they're going to have any major impact - why wouldn't they want to bring recognisable people who agree with their core message onboard? Or are you saying the likes of Cherry wouldn't touch them because they're lacking credibility somehow?

Nobody had really heard of UKIP or took them seriously until they got Kilroy, and then suddenly they got loads of coverage. PoW need their own Kilroy. If not Cherry, who?

Somehow I can't see POW rebranding as an alternative to the SNP and focussing on campaigning for Scottish Independence. Or Joanna Cherry deciding that Scottish Independence is suddenly less of a priority for her.

ArabellaScott · 07/07/2024 15:55

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/07/2024 11:18

I am. I stood for Party of Women in Newcastle upon Tyne East & Wallsend.

The best way to make POW more effective is for more women to join POW and more women to stand for POW in elections. There should be plenty to have a shot at before the next General Election.

www.partyofwomen.org/

I have to laugh at the armchair politicians in this thread sniping at KJK's campaign strategy.

None of us standing expected to get over 5% of the votes cast, which we would need to do to get our £500 deposit returned.

Look what value for money we got though - this is strategy!

*Royal Mail Unaddressed Leaflets Delivery - Normal Cost"

https://www.royalmail.com/business/marketing/mail/door-to-door

"For as little as £500 you could reach up to 8,000 households

83% of door drop items are engaged with by customers*"

But Election Leaflets are delivered FOR FREE by the Royal Mail.

For my £500 deposit the Royal Mail delivered not to "up to 8,000" households but to 60,300 households!

For £500 POW leaflets were delivered in my Constituency to 76,245 voters.

In many households there would, obviously, be children under the age of 18. Too young to vote this time but, by the time they are old enough vote in a General Election, we want to them to become as familiar with a Party of Women candidate standing in a local election as a candidate for any other party. That should be their norm and expectation.

Every time a POW candidate stands for an election we can get the message across that it is perfectly OK to acknowledge the reality of sex, perfectly normal to challenge the elite orthodoxy of "gender affirmation" for children as abusive.

Every time there is a hustings or a chance to speak at a count, even if we don't win, we can get our message across. The videos of candidates speaking are scattered across different social media platforms - I have not yet got a list of links.

KJK spoke well at the Bristol Central hustings and never mind the man shouting "Rubbish!" after she spoke. She was quite poorly by that stage. She had not let up with her regular LWS activities and YouTube live-streams, was busy with her own campaign yet every night all the Candidates had an hour's Zoom with her.

That woman is a power house - and to suggest as PP have done that she lacks campaigning strategy or has "undermined the cause" is frankly ludicrous.

I have also seen some supposed feminists bemoaning the fact that the Women's Equality Party (WEP) was/is a "lost opportunity" . . . and how much better it would have been if WEP had done as well as POW . . . so at one and the same time POW made a pathetic showing - but isn't it a shame that WEP did not do as well as POW?

POW knocked the duplicitously named "Women's Equality Party" off the map. WEP has been going for 9 years, has "celebrity" founders, big donations from a Google employee (to make sure his "trans daughter" has a leg-up into UK politics) and what did they achieve?

WEP has funding from the Google Guy.

POW had some candidates who had never used a spreadsheet but we had support from seasoned candidates and election agents, former activists from the "big parties" who helped with tech support and gave advice about how to navigate the insane complexities of the electoral system, legal issues, etc.

WEP stood 4 candidates.

POW stood 16 candidates.

POW had zero funds, fielded 4 times as many candidates as WEP and has only been in existence since February.

Some WEP candidates also got fewer votes than some POW candidates.

If any party is an embarrassment to the women's rights movement it is WEP - not Party of Women. But that is too embarrassing to admit for the snobs who fawn over celebrities, refer to KJK as a "T-Shirt saleswoman" and roll their eyes and tut at the language of working class women who have not had their tongues tamed into submission by middle-class identity politics and are not hamstrung by purity spiral traps.

If they want to start their own party, let them have a go. If they think they can wrangle the Labour Party now that it is in Government, I sincerely hope that they can.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to help POW, please join us 💚🤍💜 xx

Kellie-Jay's closing statement from the Bristol 24/7 Bristol Central hustings #POW #PartyOfWomen

You are amazing. Thank you for all that you've done, it's truly great to see the bravery and tenacity of all of the PoW candidates. Proper grass roots politics.

CassieMaddox · 07/07/2024 16:04

Pourquoise · 07/07/2024 09:22

Strong agree.

Me too, 💯
You'll not get anywhere talking sense about KJK on here though @Ineverlose

CassieMaddox · 07/07/2024 16:05

OldCrone · 07/07/2024 10:36

It is blindingly obvious that she has become consumed by her ego. It’s not my fault if you are blind to this

I'm not so arrogant that I think I can do armchair psychology and diagnose people I have never met. I'm not sure what 'consumed by her ego' even means. I've just watched one of her videos where she says she has a massive ego. Is that what you mean?

She said she was running for elections AGES ago. She evidently made a mess of some of the paperwork and only got registered 4 months ago . She said she was doing this POW well over a year ago

I think she announced the plan for a party in May last year, so a little over a year ago. I expect the paperwork is quite complex, and it seems she made some errors, which is probably not unusual for people starting their own small parties. Once she got it registered she was quite efficient at getting candidates, with some running for council elections in May and then 16 candidates in the GE. That's pretty good going. The WEP have only had a total of 14 candidates in 3 general elections and they were formed in 2015.

Any attention she got was alongside Captain Beany, Count Binface and King Arthur, all joke candidates.

Do you have any evidence for this? Links?

Had she made a better fist of it ( for example she could have stood in a more suitable constituency) she would have done much better. But she didn’t (terrible tactics) The idea that she was going to somehow show up Carla Denyer and Thangam failed miserably ( more terrible tactics)

If you remember, she was originally going to stand against Lloyd Russell-Moyle in Brighton. I'm sure you agree this was an excellent choice. Then just a few days later the Labour party suspended him which meant she needed to find a better constituency rather than just run against a random Labour candidate.

With only a few days left before the deadline for nominations, she would have had quite limited options when selecting another constituency, and also had to make a fairly quick choice. Having watched some of her videos, she did seem to relish the idea of being in the same room as Carla Denyer.

What would be a 'suitable constituency' in your opinion? Did any of the POW candidates stand in a 'suitable constituency'? I think they all stood in the constituencies they live in.

There are, thankfully, much better Gc women out there who are, thankfully, gaining much more ground.

Gaining much more ground how, exactly? Who? What are they doing? And 'much better'? Do you think it's a competition?

Maybe they didn’t run because they’re more tactical than her and knew it wouldn’t be a good idea? However once she said she was creating a political party no one else could take that space.

They could have done it first. But if they thought it wasn't a good idea (for them), why slag off someone who does want to do it? If they wanted to stand they could have joined her party. There's also nothing to stop them starting another party if they didn't want to join PoW.

It would be insane to try to collaborate with someone like kjk who lives off fighting (more terrible tactics) She needs to stop slagging other people off. This issue is too important for so much in fighting

The slagging off is coming from one side (and it's not KJK). It started when WPUK de-platformed her, while still letting males like self-confessed autogynephile Debbie Hayton speak at their meetings.

Then there was Jane Clare Jones and others slagging her off for doing her activism in a way that they don't like.
https://theradicalnotion.org/gender-critical-disputes/

I'm not sure if I've ever seen her retaliate (but I'm sure you'll provide some links if she has), but she's certainly taken a kicking from some other gender critical feminists.

You forgot the period of time where she said she was standing against Jess Phillips but then pulled out.

She was very disorganised in her strategy.