Neil Gaiman accused of sexual assault

[WandsOut]

www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sandman-writer-neil-gaiman-denies-142813982.html

Story still unfolding in the news

The people saying it's kink-shaming clearly don't understand the definition of kink, which is an unusual sexual preference. There's nothing unusual about men being predatory pieces of shit with a dominance fetish and a liking for pushing boundaries and humiliating women. A quick glance at the front page of any porn site shows that. It's tale as old as time and it's depressingly prevalent.

How the fuck is coercing a woman into performing oral sex on you in exchange for not making them jobless and homeless considered a 'kink'?

Brave journalism would have taken RB down at the height of his abusive behaviour, when he was guest editing the New Statesman and palling around with Owen Jones.

You don't have to buy into RB's brand of conspiracy theories to think it's interesting that all this came to light years later when he was sober and married, but in a career slump and associated with unfashionable causes.

Horrible man! This has really made me angry because my dd13 is a fan of his books and has already been told about some of the most vile details of his lechery and abuse by her friends - it’s traumatic for kids to find out this sort of thing about their idols.

I’m also surprised Amanda Palmer tolerated him - apparently she knew what he was like. No accounting for taste.

I’m hoping the full weight of the law topples down on him like a pile of bricks.

NG may have been "too big to fail" but there's no escaping this now. The difference with comics/genre publishing as opposed to e.g. Hollywood is that the audience is way more engaged and invested in the creators. People who watched Weinstein's films had no idea what was what until industry insiders pulled the plug on him. But in genre publishing, people who read books, attend conventions, go to readings and signings, blog about books, put reviews on goodreads and amazon, are friends with authors on facebook, run fan clubs and are aspiring or working writers - they are the insiders. They know, and any one of them is capable of speaking out. It doesn't need the head of a massive publishing group or Netflix to speak out on this.

What is needed is mainstream press coverage. But for that to happen, NG needs to pop up somewhere and deny that he's a predator and sex abuser. He cannot stay silent forever. People are talking about it, and it's going to start snowballing at some point. Or, you know, journalists could just do their fucking jobs.

Yeah, I think with NG in particular because so much of his career has been based on marketing NG as a personality. He's recognisable in a way that very few genre writers are.

Even with high profile figures who fans would know to see, very few of us know anything about their personal lives. Maybe we know X is a gay man from Glasgow or Y is a married mum from Toronto, but that's about it. It was Neil's conscious decision to do the whole "rock star writer" thing, and it's quite satisfying to see that bite him on the bum.

Or maybe it's not that newsworthy beyond what has already been reported because he's not as famous as he pretended to be. The podcast and its revelations are a career obituary, maybe there's not much more to say.

Isn’t Good Omens a big BBC success though?

Isn’t Good Omens a big BBC success though?

I honestly don't know. There's so much content now on so many platforms. He was great at marketing himself as the Moody Rock Star Writer but now that he's fallen silent it appears that maybe the marketing machine was mostly him? True of a lot of authors who are all about the Brand.

No, that's nonsense. Of course it's newsworthy. He's a household name, he's recognisable, he's a multi-millionaire and his works are on netflix, the bbc etc.

"Not as famous as he pretended to be" - what does that even mean?

He's fallen silent because of the allegations against him. It's not a coincident that he's disappeared since the first podcast came out a month ago.

I have no idea why you would think his career was somehow over and he's irrelevant. Even if this were the case, and he had retired from public life, the allegations against him would still be newsworthy.

Yes, I get that he's fallen silent because of the allegations. What I'm saying is that now that his self promotion has stopped, maybe this is the last real story we'll hear about him. Tortoise owns it because they broke it, and that's possibly as far as it will go.

It will be interesting to see if he gets another book deal. A lot of women in publishing these days.

These allegations are horrific, but when I think about it, the BBC not reporting it is in some ways neither here nor there - the BBC would not have listened to those women, or platformed them, but that does not mean this isn't an important story, it means that the BBC etc were too slow and didn't break it (or didn't want to) and a smaller, more agile operation did.

I don't understand what you mean? Tortoise doesn't own the news. If something is newsworthy, which this is, then it's newsworthy for all news establishments. Just because one media source gets a scoop doesn't mean other places don't have the duty to report on it too. If you look at the papers who did cover this a month ago, the story was 'Gaiman denies accusations which were aired on podcast.' They didn't claim they couldn't report the news because someone else got there first.

What I'm saying is that now that his self promotion has stopped, maybe this is the last real story we'll hear about him. Tortoise owns it because they broke it, and that's possibly as far as it will go.

I'm completely confused by this. Tortoise don't own this story. Why should NG being in hiding mean that we won't hear any more stories about him? More women could come forward, and probably will. The mainstream media could choose to report on this at any moment. There are loads of angles to take.

It will be interesting to see if he gets another book deal. A lot of women in publishing these days.

I don't think book deals are the big issue for NG now he has HUGE deals ongoing with television production companies. He'll continue to get deals as long as this story is kept from the mainstream media by his PR people and lawyers. Once it breaks into mainstream, who knows.

I mean that Tortoise owns it because they have done so much background research, they have established themselves as a safe and respectful place for these women to share their stories, they believe them, they are reporting fearlessly.

But I don't think he's that big a deal as an author outside his own bubble, and that's possibly why the BBC etc are keeping away. Plus he would have mates there, I'm sure. I know it's a big deal here on Mumsnet but I don't think it's that big a story in general. Writers aren't particularly newsworthy, except the superstars.

(Although I hope I'm wrong and you're right.)

But I don't think he's that big a deal as an author outside his own bubble, and that's possibly why the BBC etc are keeping away.

That's just not the case. He is a hugely famous person. Most people know who he is, would recognise him in the street. If you watch any kind of genre tv or you're a reader at all or you're on social media, you'll know who he is. He might not be quite as famous as JKR but his name is definitely better known than Harvey Weinstein's was before he was exposed. He's certainly as famous as Russell Brand. He's absolutely a celebrity.

Plus he would have mates there, I'm sure.

I'm sure he does. But that signals the corruption of the BBC if that's the reason they won't report the actual news. That's a story in itself.

I know it's a big deal here on Mumsnet but I don't think it's that big a story in general. Writers aren't particularly newsworthy, except the superstars.

He is a superstar. It's a huge story.

I'm sure you're right. But there are so many writers. And the story is out there. And to be honest, older white male writer turns out to be a massive sex pest is highly unoriginal.

[Sorry that sounds flippant. I did an MA in creative writing and am a little jaded.]

Personally I think the thing that makes this so significant - outside of NG himself - is the way it presents the sexual predation and abuse that occurred.

I know many women who have experienced unwanted sexual behaviours from men in positions of power or authority in the past, who weren’t sure why they felt so ashamed - things like the bath, where women are put in a position where the lines are blurred, and it’s very easy to say the woman is ‘confused’ or misunderstood the intentions.

I was particularly struck by the hotel room/bath scenes in ‘Douglas is Cancelled’. The gaslighting and insidious coercion is all too familiar, but women are often left feeling confused about whether they’ve been violated, because it becomes a ‘frog in the boiling pot’ situation. And by the time they realise what is happening, they are accused of consent/compliance/leading someone on.

I find Scarlett’s story in particular so important, because so many women who have experienced this, and have been left feeling dirty and abused and violated but also gaslit, will hopefully feel less shame and more anger.

Hopefully this will shine a stronger light on what is sadly all too common predatory behaviour from men.

Also...

older white male writer turns out to be a massive sex pest is highly unoriginal.

So should the press only report on stories that are original?

I can think of a few writers who are/were sex abusers. They're not all male, and they're not all white, either. (Really not sure what being white has to do with it?) But very few writers who are as famous and have as big a reach as NG.

I agree with notathenabutcassandra that one of the important aspects of this is the coercive nature of NG's abuse. The fact that much of it happened within relationships. That the sexual assaults happened in relationships where consensual sex also happened. That sex was 'bought' with threats and silence was bought with money and legal harassment. All of that is important to expose. This should be a national conversation, and it would be, if the mainstream media were doing its job.

@taylorswift1989 Exactly that. We’re still having the same conversations around rape (‘she was asking for it’ ‘she said yes’) and despite years and years of debate, a minuscule percentage of rapes are reported and, of those, a tiny proportion lead to a conviction.

The fact that men are predatory and manipulative as well as violent and aggressive means that many women don’t even realise they have a right to accuse someone of sexual abuse. Anyone who has read ‘My Dark Vanessa’ will understand only too well how someone in a position of power (however that power manifests) can twist and poison a narrative to make someone believe they are complicit.

That's a fantastic book. This is a really important conversation to have.

It really is. I mean, it left me a bit broken for a while, but that’s why it’s so important.

I agree, I thought that book was brilliant.