Neil Gaiman accused of sexual assault

[WandsOut]

www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sandman-writer-neil-gaiman-denies-142813982.html

Story still unfolding in the news

The issue of consent, power and coercion is EXACTLY what we need to be talking about more and more an era where young women are being told that if they're not "into everything", including BDSM, rough sex, choking, and wall to wall porn, much of it violent, they're being kink-shaming uncool prudes, and that boundaries are somehow "evil" and regressive.

Some powerful men are creepy predators; always have been.Sure, that's not new. But we also need to talk big time about enabling, particularly when it's big powerful media and TV companies, publishers, writers, the entertainment industry, all protecting "one of their own" because he makes them money and they see him as being in their "tribe" (i.e. he has used them well and they fell for and promoted it). We need to keep talking about this, particularly the fact that it is enablers who give people like Neil Gaiman the opportunity to be untouchable and commit the abuses they do. Which, given his background, he well knew how to utilise.

There is no excuse for the continued silence. They are no different from those who protected Savile and others back in the day. It's just they don't realise they're exactly the same "closing ranks establishment" as the establishment most of these people and orgs fondly imagine they stand in direct opposition to.

But it’s not just a case of “there are so many writers”. I have to google Mr Beast whenever he comes up in a story because I’m not into YouTubers, but that gap in my interests doesn’t negate the fact that Mr Beast is worth something like $500 million and has 300+ million subscribers. Could I point him out in a line up of one? No. But does that mean he isn’t newsworthy if he was involved in something like this? Definitely not.

Gaiman has made MILLIONS from his TV and film adaptations, including Good Omens, Sandman, Coraline, American Gods, and Stardust. He’s got his own production company, and his latest film adaptation, of The Ocean at the End of the Lane, is being produced by Tom Hanks’ company and directed by Joe Wright. He is not a small fish, or even a medium fish. He’s a massive fucking fish that dictates major actions of his publishing houses - if he has a book out that year, they make a profit, if he doesn’t, they can’t invest in new authors.

Just because you, along with the rest of us, are tired of “man of any type abuses women”, doesn’t mean this isn’t huge news and should be reported accordingly. And just because typing “Neil Gaiman” into the BBC site gives you 29 pages of results of his appearances, adaptations, and reviews by the BBC, doesn’t mean they very definitely shouldn’t be covering it even more.

Especially when yet another golden boy turns out to be a predator.

As someone who has a daughter AND a son, my husband and I spend way too much time trying to figure out how we get this right. How we find the balance between making sure our daughter is safe, whilst modelling good male behaviour that doesn’t infantilise men, doesn’t say ‘this is how boys are’ but also recognises that testosterone produces a certain drive/impulse in men, and to not recognise that, to not acknowledge that, is doing FB everyone a disservice.

Absolutely Not All Men. But more than we’d like to believe. And to understand the root of the problem is more important than pretending there isn’t one.

Gods dammit, I had a feeling there would be more. So so disappointed, he really was an idol of mine, and I do not have many. I believe these women.

I think the sex positive world view really does maintain that the only interest one could have in a sexual relationship that meets the criteria for legal consent is a prudish or prurient one.

I think for lots of women the most harmful sex they will have in their life is sex that (to a legal standard) they consent to. But it's really hard to talk about this harm because any idea of sexual morality, of there being good sex and bad sex (not as in degree of pleasure, but as in degree of human flourishing) has been abandoned since the 60s.

Until he creeps out from wherever he is hiding and tries to pretend it's business as usual we don't know what's going to happen. I agree with you that it should be more widely reported, but I'm not surprised that it's not.

Mr Beast is also in a world of shit right now with regard to his brand and some seriously disturbing behaviour by one of his team as I'm sure you know. Similar behaviour, similar entitlement, and again it's all somehow unfortunate but ultimately OK because we can't kink shame.

That one is different because the cash cow Mr Beast himself is fairly clean. But NG must be worth a fortune to the BBC. How can they report on him when he makes them money? They would look like utter hypocrites. Especially as it's pretty clear it was widely known in the industry but tolerated as he makes everyone money.

But he is still silent, there are more stories and more victims emerging, and his fans are asking him directly on his social media to say something.

I guess what I'm saying is that yes, it should be reported in the mainstream media but just because it isn't doesn't mean he's going to get away with it.

He can't defend himself, he can't pretend business as usual. In a way by cultivating such a close, friendly intimate relationship with his fans through social media he's dug his own grave. Where can he go from here? His reputation, his image and his name are all utterly destroyed.

@Poettree, I agree - he's hiding for now, but will creep out at some point, and hope that no one notices. I suppose he'll be talking to his lawyers in the meantime.

I think for lots of women the most harmful sex they will have in their life is sex that (to a legal standard) they consent to.

I absolutely agree with this. But let's not forget that NG also forced sex on women when they did not consent to it. Some of the sex was consensual, some was coerced, some was straightforward assault.

It's interesting that Julia Hobsbawm's account of NG trying to force himself on her is by far the least harrowing of all the stories we've heard so far. It lacks the elements of manipulation and gaslighting and domination that others report.

@taylorswift1989 I suspect because she is not a vulnerable woman. She’s a particularly powerful woman in the industry, and the fact that she’s speaking up is actually fairly significant.

I suspect it was an error on his part with her - a drunken misstep. However, her coming forward is a pretty big deal. It’s an industry powerhouse putting her name with those more vulnerable women. Im impressed with her taking this stance.

It's interesting that Julia Hobsbawm's account of NG trying to force himself on her is by far the least harrowing of all the stories we've heard so far. It lacks the elements of manipulation and gaslighting and domination that others report.

Significant, I think, that that's an example of NG as a young man. He's been doing this a very long time, it seems, but his style has evolved.

He's made a half hearted attempt to say his autism makes it difficult for him to read non-verbal cues. Even if we believe he does have autism, I'm not convinced. I know guys, with and without autism diagnoses, who aren't great at reading women's non-verbal cues, and they might make a clumsy pass at a woman who's clearly not interested, but they don't behave like this.

The manipulation and power play and keeping things where he could plausibly claim there was consent, and oh yes the NDAs, that's not autism, that's Scientology. Neil was always far more involved than he let on.

i hate this thing of “you’re not a PRUDE, are you?” If someone doesn’t think something sexual is OK or doesn’t want to do it. It’s a bit like “bigot” in that it’s used to scare people into compliance , and most women are more scared than most men of being a “bad person” or not keeping other people happy. I think there’s a process by which people think “I don’t know why I’m a prude for not wanting violent sex/anal sex/sex with the sex I’m not into. but oh no I can’t be a prude” and fall into line very quickly rather than be accused.

We need to normalise saying “what, sorry, what does that have to do with what I like in bed, if I don’t want to do XY or Z that’s because I don’t like it. You’re free to find someone who does if it matters to you.” and teach our daughters (and sons too probably) to not cave the second someone labels them something as a transparent method of control.

I'm interested in hearing more about this if you can elaborate.

Also @MrsWhattery on "to not cave the second someone labels them something as a transparent method of control."

I've been in relationships all my life. Because I was told over and over again that women must find a man. Even though I came from a home with university educated, professional parents who both worked, my mother told me I would be unhappy if I didn't get married and have children.

Ive been single now for a few years and I am beginning to realise I was abused and controlled in all of those relationships. But all of the behaviour would have been considered to be 'just how it is' by many people. Men expecting sex, demanding sex, expecting their kind of sex. Expecting me to do and be what they wanted with zero care for what I wanted. Using labels to control me all the time! But none of them would consider anything they did to be wrong. They'd all consider themselves good men. And I had no idea at the time that I was putting up with unacceptable behaviour because it's all so accepted!

i genuinely feel I'm only finally 'discovering me' now in later life and realising that I am so much happier single that in many ways I have been robbed of a happy life by men's demands.

I mean, there is nothing wrong with sex, nothing wrong with women enjoying sex. But NG from all accounts (and much of the supposed 'sex positive' movement these days, given how much of it is about abusive sexual practices) has always been wholly unconcerned with women's enjoyment or pleasure. He has (partly) been using their fear of being labelled uncool in that climate to coerce & manufacture "consent". And he knows full well that regardless of what the law (in the UK anyway) says that a lot of people will have the narrative of "well, she consented, look, there's nothing we can do, it's her own fault". He is all about enforcing power. Revolting, abusive man, and so many enabling him.

Sex Positive feminism strikes me as another thing that probably originated to support women but was then taken up by The Male Feminists because it allowed them to continue coercing women into sex they didn't want through shaming tactics.

I grew up with this idea. My mum used to talk about spinsters and being left on the shelf, no man will want you in your 30s, you've got to have children blah blah blah. And domestic violence and 'women's work' was normalised. It was just a given that you'd do all the housework and husbands would treat you like crap, my mum and her sisters would laugh and joke about it. My aunts didn't have access to their own money, even though they had part time jobs. Totally normalised.

I have occasional contact with my mum and the stuff she comes out with makes me cringe. She told me recently that my cousin's husband 'rules the roost' and smacks the dog around, then a few minutes later she's saying what a great guy he is. When I was a child I'd hear stories about how one of her BiLs had punched the wall, or had a 'punch up' with their sons, and it was joked about. I imagine they'd all scoff at the idea they did anything wrong. They're men after all, they have a right to behave how they want, when they want and have an expectation that their woman will satisfy their needs and toe the line.

So when I got into my first relationship and the red flags were frantically waving, I remember thinking to myself, this is just what a relationship is, it's just what men are like, and brushed it off.

It's taken years to disentangle this. Even when I knew better, the idea that I was supposed to put up with this shit was so deeply ingrained. I've been single by choice for over three years now and it's so peaceful.

in many ways I have been robbed of a happy life by men's demands.

And that's it, isn't it? Nothing has fucked me up more than being with a man. Sure, there were nice times, but not a single one of those nice times was worth even five minutes of the shit I put up with.

Yep. While I don't doubt there are women who enjoy BDSM, into kinks, whatever, invariably sex positivity and kink shaming is about not making a man feel bad (i.e. saying no) for not wanting to participate in a sexual act. Much like trans rights are basically men's wants. Trans men.. what trans men? It's the same old shite - women, know your place, the men are in charge and require servicing.

Yes, sadly Gaiman seems to have been doing this for a long time. Many instances of him pushing boundaries or taking liberties or having entirely questionable morals in other ways even before these rounds of sexual allegations came out.

I'd read a lot of his works in my teens, but I fell off the NG bandwagon sometime ago when I'd read (on his blog I think, or some comparable primary source) about his other transgressions. He'd freely admitted to lying on his CV when he was just starting out in his career, claiming to have worked with a number of well-known artists in the graphic novels field when in fact he had not, reasoning that no one would bother to actually check with these famous people about his CV's claims. Then Gaiman went on to boast that in time, he did work with all those names he'd embellished his CV with, so it was just that his CV was "anachronistic". (face palm)

I couldn't believe what I was reading but this absolutely came from Gaiman himself and it turned me off his works massively. That level of entitlement, of skirting the rules and bending it as he saw fit, and the lack of contrition afterwards... questionable morality is never a standalone thing in a person.

Sadly, the fact that he's a sexual predator is not that surprising and I'm glad the victims are able to voice what they had to struggle with alone for so long.

@VictorianBigot sorry to hear you've had a similarly shitty experience with men.

But you know what? We're completely wrong- men are wonderful and never do anything wrong. And to suggest they do is actually not just misandrist but also misogynistic.

Apparently:

Unacceptable things that men do in relationships www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/5133093-unacceptable-things-that-men-do-in-relationships

@dervel No judgment at all here, but are you able to explain why he was such an idol? You might not want to, which of course is fine, but I’m curious to try and understand what his many, many fans see in him (and that’s to anyone else who wants to chip in too).

Ah, of course it's the wimmin's fault for not being stronger. That was our problem, we are mere weaklings.

@VictorianBigot indeed. But women really do ourselves no favours as a class when we relentlessly excuse their behaviour and berate other women for daring to suggest they aren't perfect in every way.

@BigWordAtlas I like/d his work rather than idolising him personally. I think. Although admiring someone's work is tantamount to admiring the creator so I'm conflicted now I know he's a monster. Does that mean I can't like the books and screenplays anymore? I don't know. I still can't help turning the radio up when Smooth Criminal is played. And then having a similar debate in my head about whether I'm allowed to enjoy it.

told over and over again that women must find a man

Yes me too. And women/girls are also told this all the time by ads, films, magazines etc and it does a number on you from early childhood. So many of us only wake up and realise it's nicer without a man (or at least the man or types of men we've been putting up with) in later life.

So I'm not blaming anyone who does give in to that pressure, or believes that idea - and who is vulnerable to feeling that if she doesn't give a boy or man what he wants then he won't like her. We just have to counteract the pressure and help girls to grow up realising that being single is always an option, walking away from shitty expectations is an option, having a crappy uncaring man not like you because you wouldn't service his every whim is also an option and actually a plus.

Genuinely can't believe it's 30 days and nothing.

Also: have we seen this one? I'm losing track. Sorry if repost: fandompulse.substack.com/p/neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-misconduct