The Times Lead Story - Labour Set To Annihilate Women's Rights

[Arealnumber]

Labour to simplify ‘undignified’ gender transition process

www.thetimes.com/article/29648ec1-5b29-4b35-97df-2a443c71d7e0?shareToken=fd3bf0c5a080ae78044dd82770d8e1a7

This is going to be disastrous. "Spousal veto" removed, Lords stacked (um they're already majority crossbenchers and hardly did the Tories' bidding?), "inclusive conversion therapy ban", de facto marriage (which will also usher in the worst outcomes for women and children in certain religious denominations), not implementing Cass in full, reversal of gender questioning guidance, and then what will come down the track on KSCIE, and what will happen with the stayed CPS consultation on sex by deception..?

This will be the worst assault on women and children in this country, in living memory. I cannot vote for them. I will not vote for them. The damage could take well beyond my lifetime to put right. I cannot enable them.

BBC take on it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckrrx571jklt

I don’t understand the drama about this, I really don’t.
The only thing regarding trans people that is actually an issue is people who have gone through male puberty competing in female sports - maybe a third category of sports events would solve that but even so, not all people are into competitive sport so it stands to reason not all trans people are. It’s probably not that much of an issue.
I really don’t see how making it easier for people who are struggling, because trans people are born that way they aren’t doing it for a laugh is destroying women’s rights. For a start there are transitions both ways and there have been trans people since time immemorial, they just didn’t have the voice.
It seems incredibly selfish to want to deny a group of people, most of whom you will never meet, happiness.
All I ever read on here is - we need single sex spaces. I don’t understand why, these people aren’t out to get you they are living their own lives. And let’s be honest once a trans woman has gone through the dressing over the top wearing too much make up stage that all of us went through as teens when we became women, you don’t even know. They look like the rest of us. You might well have known trans people in your life and had no idea.
Think Mumsnet is an echo chamber of fear on this issue. I don’t need to tell you to think about the way other groups of people have been treated in the past - you know it. Trans people have the same impact on your life as those other groups did people in the past - none whatsoever.
And if the new government will make it easier for people to find happiness then good for them.

Helen Webberley is available.

Please explain how legally redefining women away from “adult human females” and instead as “adult human females plus men who feel like women” in any way benefits women

please explain how one accurately records data on women and the impact of policy around reducing women’s poverty, improving access to employment, improving women’s health when the definition of women includes “and some men”

please explain how it benefits women to have programmes to improve women’s experience in for example STEM or to get more of them into politics when the definition includes “and some men”

plrsse explain how it benefits women to have support and peer groups for women to have to include “and some men”

and that’s before we even get to “and some men” being in women’s prisons, refuges and rape survivors groups

womrn are adult human females. Not adult human females and some men who think performing femininity makes them women

“And some men” are not women

Thank you but I don't want male, physically intact (as most trans women will be,) or not in a women's toilet area with me. I want same sex intimate care for those who need it. I want single sex women's prisons. You can put up with being unhappy but others cannot be asked to be unsafe.

FAFO

All I ever read on here is - we need single sex spaces. I don’t understand why

It really doesn’t take much imagination to work out why single sex spaces are needed for privacy and dignity for both men and women, and for safety for women. Hospital wards and other healthcare settings, changing rooms, domestic violence refuges, rape crises centres, prisons.

The issue isn’t “trans”. The issue is men. And as transwomen are men, they need to stay out of women’s spaces.

Okay. So you are happy for all spaces to be mixed sex? Including prisons, changing rooms, hospital wards?

Agree. The stark facts of Labour's intentions are in front of us and I will not give them my vote. When women's rights have been decimated it will be too late to speak up.

We rarely get rights back. Last time it was the GRA next decimation will conclude it

Male supremacy shortly to be rubberstamped, then.

It really doesn’t take much imagination to work out why single sex spaces are needed for privacy and dignity for both men and women, and for safety for women.

It takes so little imagination that I am giving the pp serious side eye.

The removal of spousal consent is appalling, it was a way for women to exit marriages they no longer wanted to be. A transwoman can still obtain an interim GRC. Fucking awful for women.

What utter fucking bastards Labour are.

Just because Labour is shit, it doesn't mean anyone suddenly thinks Reform suddenly smells like roses.
Politics are not a seesaw where if you don't like one party's policies, you're suddenly in love with another. They're all shite in their own special way.
This is has nothing to do with the other parties anyway.
Labour is due to be the next government. They're the ones whose policies need scrutiny. If it were the Tories predicted for a landslide win, I'd be wanting to hold their feet to the fire too.

What do Labour think the purpose of a gender certificate is?

Taking their words on face value (yeah I know!) if they are saying women and girls can say no to men in single sex spaces even with a GRC then what is the purpose of this process and resulting certificate that says a man has a lady gender?

What is he going to be able to do with it? What does Labour think he should be doing with it?

You don’t understand why women need single-sex spaces? Really?

This is inexcusable. If we are talking about changing language, laws, policies, learning to be kind to a few how can the people who advocate that choose to support removing the spousal veto? Talk about indignity? This is only because the people asking for this change are all about men's rights. It's inhumane.

I’m a middle age woman and I was recently recalled for further investigations after a routine mammogram. The breast clinic was entirely female staffed from the consultant to the HCA. The trust has a separate male breast clinic. I had to have an ultrasound and a biopsy both of which were uncomfortable, intrusive and exposed but absolutely necessary procedures to determine whether cancer was present. I was so grateful for this single sex space and it helped immensely for me to feel safe at what was otherwise a stressful and worrying time. This is just one example why woman need single sex spaces.

If Labour allows self ID these women only spaces will have to accept trans women staff and patients but still claim it is a women’s only clinic. If anyone questions this or objects they will be labelled transphobes and bigots. I suspect some biological women will be put off attending these clinics as a result, with an increase in them dying from undetected and untreated cancers.

With all due respect, its very clear that when you say 'I don't understand why', you don't understand.
Womens rights matter. If you're struggling to understand how women are impacted by this, then some more reading of these boards should help.
This isn't scaremongering. It's whistleblowing.

I couldn't be more fucked off if I tried. This bloody party. They said they'd listen, they said they'd moderate their position. They roll out Wes Streeting and you have some hope they aren't totally ridiculous. Then Annalisa Dodds speaks and the sense of dread reappears.

The bit that is enraging is they haven't shift their position at all. "Total" ban on conversion therapies, making GRCs as easy as possible (the focus completely being on the applicant and their supposed distress and no thought given to any person who might want to exploit the process), throwing trans widows under the bus, the removal of safeguarding in school to teach gender drivel to kids.

This has been their position now for years, and despite all the lobbying and shouting and begging, they've stuck with it. They have no idea how callous and moronic they sound to anyone with a passing understanding of what is going on here. What is even more self defeating is the fallout of the gender nonsense is going to continue over the coming years and labour will be held responsible for it, despite it all happening under the tories. They had an opportunity to distance themselves and they totally failed.

Well fuck them. I'm not voting for Labour.

For a start themConservatives were not planning on reforming the process for getting a GRC to make it much easier to get one. The appalling 2004 Labour introduced legal lie which says a male is female on a birth certificate - which what a GRC allows -
is about to be even easier to get. (NB no requirement for surgery.)
In the first place the bill was passed more or less in secret, but only on the grounds there would only be so few people obtaining one that it wouldn’t matter. It was never supposed to be easier. The removal of a spousal clause means women married to a man who changed their sex ( not uncommon, it seems to be an alternative to a motorbike or an affair for some AGP middle aged men) is put in a difficult legal position.

Then, have a look at the thread about safeguarding children in schools guidance which Conservatives had just finished, about to be undermined by Labour removing parts that prevent teaching that we are all born with a gender identity (which might not match our bodies). The shadow education secretary has evidently not read the first thing about what has been happening to children. It would seem she has not done the most basic research.

Apart from this, Labour will drive through the T inclusive ban on conversion therapy bill, even though transgenderism in itself is used to convert gay children; even though it is not clear what conversion practices on trans people actually are even being carried out in the first place; even though the evidence is that gender questioning children are often autistic, potentially gay, in care, sexually abused, or traumatised. So the last thing that will help them is instant affirmation that the source of their problems is that they are transgender, and that they ought to have harmful body modifications, without first having access to mental health therapies - when these could be suspected of attempting dissuasion/conversion.

(The conservatives had paused this bill pending further investigations on how to word it around the trans element in order to build in safeguards. )

I guess I'll be spoiling my ballot then. 😡

I'd like to see a couple of them pinned down like Sturgeon was when she flubbered about rapist gender.

This post was on another thread, I hope they don’t mind I’ll just copy it here

‘If you actually bothered to read their manifesto you will see they have read the room on this issue and have made plenty of pledges:

🟢 Introduce primary legislation to clarify that the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act means biological sex.
🟢 Amend the NHS Constitution so that it recognises every patient’s right to request single-sex accommodation and same-sex intimate care.
🟢 Make legal gender a reserved matter to the United Kingdom, so the Scottish and Welsh governments cannot introduce self-ID.
🟢 Give parents a right to see what their children are being taught in relationships and sex education.
🟢 Implement the Cass Review recommendations, protecting young people questioning their gender from ideologically driven care and ensuring that gender provision for children in England is evidence-based.
🟢 Make the guidance for schools on gender-questioning children statutory.
🟢 Drop the previous government’s plan to ban so-called “conversion therapy”.
🟢 Legislate to permanently prevent the private prescription and supply of puberty blockers to children with gender distress. ‘