Pride month

[Hyperions]

Has anyone noticed a dialling down in PRIDE logos on business websites today?

Just to say, there is International Mens Day. November 19 th, yes, it’s true ,they get a day and patriarchal advantage too. It just isn’t fair is it?

How dare they! I didn't realise there was one, but it's not as celebrated as international women's day I suppose.

Another right women don’t have (subject to FWR3):

The right to be recognised as a distinct and discrete category.

We had that right up to 2004 then it was stolen from us. Tbf it has been stolen from lesbian and gay men too.

Of course not, it is much more important for men to front campaigns and win prizes for IWD. You get Stonewall cookies for putting men up on IWD too.

You realise lesbians are women, yes? If something has been taken from women, it hasn't been taken from lesbians 'too'.

This is the equivalent of ‘all lives matter’

At least it’s only a day, I would have thought any International Men’s Day worth the name would have needed at least a weekend (and a sick day on Monday) to itself, to allow for the hangovers, the bike rides, the lunchtime drinking session, the attendance at a mass sporting event, the curry night, the hangovers…….

This made me lol. Very good

I am talking about categories: ‘women’ and ‘lesbian’, they are not synonymous.

Sloejelly was referring to the right to be recognised as same sex attracted rather than same gender.

Yes, but lesbian is a subcategory of woman- not all women are lesbians, but all lesbians are women (remember when that wasn't a controversial statement?). Therefore 'women' includes 'lesbians', so it makes no sense to say, "This applies to women, and lesbians too." Like saying, "This applies to fruit, and apples too."

I know it may seem like I'm being pedantic, but the reason I'm pointing it out is that there is a tendency within feminism to use 'women' to mean 'straight women', with 'lesbians' treated as a separate category.

While you could argue that straight women are also affected by definitions of sexual orientation changing from sex to gender, in practice trans men generally aren't insisting that straight women see them as potential partners, and straight women don't tend to have spaces that they want to keep for straight women.

Once again, biological sex tells when it comes to certain behaviours.

I completely agree with this, but I'm not sure how it relates to the point I was making in the comment you quoted?

You mistook Sloejelly as saying that lesbians were separate from the category of women, but actually she was saying that:

• Women (all women, straight, bi, lesbian, asexual) lose out when gender overrides sex
• Lesbians (and gay men) lose out when gender overrides sex in another way (definition of who you're potentially attracted to), so additionally not instead of

That may well be what she meant, but it's not what she said. What she said was:

We had that right up to 2004 then it was stolen from us. Tbf it has been stolen from lesbian and gay men too.

'We' and 'us' referring to women, and then 'lesbians... too', as if discussing a group which is not encompassed by the 'we'/'us'.

I also don't think you can be any more sure than I am what another poster meant. If she wants to clarify her meaning, she can.

You are ignoring what I said was stolen - “The right to be recognised as a distinct and discrete category.”

Lesbians are in the category “women” but they are also their own separate category too; “lesbians”. The GRA did not just destroy the category ‘women’ as referring just to women, it also destroyed the category ‘lesbians’ too.

Thank you for clarifying.

You really don't get it do you. And you won't even listen to us. You won't even read, comprehend, or listen to us. You deliberately haven't said if your trans friends are male-to-female or female-to-male, which makes a big difference.

Trans people are either male or female. This topic is NOT about 'trans people' per se. It is about MALE vs FEMALE. Evidence shows males (transwomen) have 6 times the rate of sexual offences than so-called 'cis' men. Transwomen are more dangerous than men.

I've tried to reason with you. But you refuse to listen and all you do is repeat mantras. We cannot reach a consensus until males stay out of female spaces. It's that simple. And you won't even answer questions around that. Women and girls are the most vulnerable and oppressed group. A man in a dress is not vulnerable or oppressed, and he needs to stay out of our spaces. And you won't even address that issue on here.

It gaslights women to deny their lived experiences, to deny what their eyes see, to call a male rapist a woman. That's why.

You've never thought about this deeply have you.

Maybe you just never stopped to think about how men demanding women and girls call them 'she' hurts women and rape survivors. I say this kindly, it sounds like you've been brainwashed to believe that it doesn't hurt women and girls for men to DEMAND they call them women.

So if you 'don't care' about a definition, how can you begin to understand how this affects women and girls rights?

Change.org are adding pride colours to their logo, which leads to this interesting juxtaposition. (Have they considered that some petitions could be gender critical). I am happy with the classic PRIDE flag but not the progress range of colours please!

EDIT: click screenshot to see the colours in full.

I don’t think any political branding is appropriate. Obviously private companies can do what they like with their logos but it should be banned from the public sector.

I don’t sign change.org petitions since I discovered on MN that it is possible for the person posting the petition to change the wording and keep the signatures.

Thank you for the info @Gettingmadderallthetime and @Sloejelly

That will definitely make me stop and think before I decide to sign any change.org petitions in the future

My local train station (Scotrail) decked out with rainbow bunting today.