Pride month

[Hyperions]

Has anyone noticed a dialling down in PRIDE logos on business websites today?

What are you talking about 😂 I care hugely for other women and children, you are making huge crazy assumptions on my opinions based purely on a brief post on a forum, because I don’t hate all trans people. You know nothing of my thoughts on women’s spaces etc and blindly attacking people who dare to be open to discussing different opinions with such wild claims will not help your cause.

You seem quite happy to have women’s language and spaces destroyed and womanhood turned into a man’s fantasy of what it feels like to be a woman.

I have never said any of that, you are making
wild assumptions.

Time was you got a better class of beeeee kind scolder who at least pretended to understand the issues before calling us all big meanies

we don’t base safeguarding for women and children on people’s lovely trans friends the same way we don’t base it on my lovely DH who won’t hurt a fly but still doesn’t belong in women’s spaces

Absolutely there are horrible women; the difference is, no matter how horrible a woman is, she can't expose her penis to women and girls in a changing room, or rape another woman, or use her male body to win women's sports competitions.

I, along with millions of others, think third spaces are an excellent solution to many of these problems. Unfortunately, TRAs do not agree, deeming the very suggestion to be 'transphobic', as it violates the 'trans women are women, trans men are men' rhetoric.

Incidentally, transwomen are entitled to compete in sports in the men's categories, PROVIDED they qualify. They are not banned from competing in sports, as so many of them claim. By that reasoning, I am banned from all of the women's teams in all sports, as I am not good enough to qualify.

This is exactly why I’m glad I’m not responsible for trying to keep everyone happy haha. I don’t know all the answers and nor do I claim to, but I also don’t think the rise in a blanket hate of all trans people is the answer.

It's not 'trans' people, it is men.

It isn't hatred of men, it is safeguarding in order to take mitigations to reduce the risk to women and girls from any random man.

For the mazillionth time.

I can assure you, I don't hate all trans people, nor do the vast, vast majority of GC people. The only trans people I hate are the ones calling for, or actively committing, physical and sexual violence against women.

Prioritising protecting the safety, dignity and humanity of women and girls should not be defined as a hatred of trans people.

I haven’t at any point said that women’s safeguarding should be based on keeping trans people happy and not women. In fact, I think women’s spaces are very important. This has all been assumed by yourself under the guise that all people who offer support toward trans people have exactly the same thoughts and opinions.

Yes you have, to quote you on your advocacy for the destruction of women’s language:

”How does using the pronouns opposite to those they were born with harm you?”

I also don’t think the rise in a blanket hate of all trans people is the answer.

Of course it's not the answer, and I don't recall anyone ever suggesting it was the answer.

There has been a huge amount of pushback against men in women's spaces, sports, hospital wards, prisons etc from women themselves and from supporters of women's rights.

The scale of this pushback took a lot of people by surprise. It seems they were expecting female people to roll over, stand back and say "okay then".

But we didn't.

Prioritising protecting the safety, dignity and humanity of women and girls should not be defined as a hatred of trans people.

👏👏👏

If there are some trans people who feel that the climate has gotten worse for them, I would argue that it's when the umbrella term "Transgender" came about.

I've read various articles from prominent gay rights activists etc, about a time when the homosexual transsexuals (gay men and women that changed sex) did not want to be associated with transvestites (heterosexual men aroused at cross-dressing). Both groups hated each other.

The creation of the umbrella term really allowed the heterosexual men to take over the movement (interesting that organisations like the Beaumont Society originally existed to try to force wives to accept their cross-dressing husbands, and now push the "transgender" stuff more).

I didn’t know asking a genuine question was destroying the safety of women, what absolute nonsense. I had never heard anyone saying pronouns harmed women.

Isn’t it interesting how anyone advocating for the rights of women and girls are accused ‘hating trans people’? Almost like in order to not ‘hate trans people’ women and girls must be denied any rights.

I don't mean to be rude, but if you have never heard anyone claim that using incorrect sex pronouns is harmful to women, then you clearly have done little to no research around this issue. Which is fine, but it is rather irritating for those of us who are very knowledgeable about this issue for someone like you to come and try to argue with us without having the requisite knowledge to back up your arguments.

Did you read the link a pp provided? Or do you not want to listen or think? May be a read of the Adams vs ERCC might be a good place to look too to see where this takes us.

Ah yes, mumsnet, the place of all the wisest and most knowledgeable educated gender experts of the highest degree, I don’t know I needed a phd in gender ideology before I dared to enter a discussion. I am allowed an opinion and as someone who is open to discussion on the subject, being jumped on by everyone hasn’t helped your cause.

@RubyBirdy

Gender:

Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time

This is why many people,
myself included included, are gender abolitionists. Adhering to the so called characteristics, roles and behaviours associated with being a man or a woman does not make you the opposite sex, or trans or queer. Like is says in the definition: gender is socially constructed.
It perpetuates regressive, sexist stereotypes and attitudes. Why anyone would see this as progressive or "no problem" belies a lack of critical thinking skills.

Ah yes, mumsnet, the place of all the wisest and most knowledgeable educated gender experts of the highest degree, I don’t know I needed a phd in gender ideology before I dared to enter a discussion. I am allowed an opinion and as someone who is open to discussion on the subject, being jumped on by everyone hasn’t helped your cause.

There is no need for sarcasm. You could learn a lot here if you were open to doing so. Posters have already provided links, if you would care to read them.

Obviously you are allowed an opinion. And you haven't been "jumped on by everyone", that's quite an exaggeration.

Our "cause", such as it is, it women's and girls' rights. Most of us here believe it is worth defending.

You don't need to be an expert, @RubyBirdy but if you are suggesting that "gender" is more important than someone's sex, then you probably should have some idea what "gender" is. It's also useful to look at the arguments you disagree with, and think about why you disagree with them so that you can explain to us why all our comments here are just "ridiculous panic".

You are incredibly rude and angry. It might be worth your while to look into discussion techniques as your current method of wanting people to agree with you by insulting them isn’t proving very successful.

I’m going to leave this conversation here, as you all seem to be incapable of having a rational discussion. Happy pride month everyone!

Now there's a surprise...

Like everyone, you are entitled to an opinion on anything. Like everyone, if your opinion isn't based on any kind of actual knowledge, you can expect people whose opinions ARE based on knowledge to point that out to you, and criticise you for it.