NHS challenged by women forced to share changing room with transwoman

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

The Daily Mail reporting on a group of 36 nurses complaining that they're forced to share an open plan changing room with a man who claims to be a woman, behaves inappropriately, is sexually active (trying for a baby with his partner) yet is given access to women undressing as he claims to be trans.
Following two formal written complaints where the response was that they needed to be be "more inclusive', 'broaden their mindset' and 'be educated and attend training" six of the nurses are now going to an employment tribunal claiming sexual harassment and sexual discrimination.
Note the article uses he pronouns.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

We all know that this is about destroying women’s right to safe spaces. Gaslighting by nonces for nonces. Nothing to do with people with body dysmorphia. Just plain old men showing their dicks to women like the dirty old perv in the park they used to be but since mobile cameras came about need a safe space for themselves to perv. These people are not trans people. They are perverts dressing like woman for their own gratification to abuse women. Institutional abuse of women by the NHS yet again.

These people are not trans people.

What's the difference?

Pronouns doing some heavy lifting here:

"She informed her that she felt intimidated and embarrassed by her presence, but she contends that she was indifferent to her discomfort and told her that she had as much right to be in the female-only changing room as she had."

Panda, you're right - that paragraph is practically incomprehensible in the way it's currently composed.

Archive link of the Times article for anyone who doesn't have a subscription:

Female NHS worker takes legal action over sharing changing room with trans woman
https://archive.ph/3VI5B

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/24409733.darlington-memorial-nurses-speak-publicly-trans-legal-battle/

I stand with my colleagues.

The more I hear about this case, the more angry I am.

These NHS HR managers are paid large salaries and they are ABUSING women. If someone behaved like this in a personal relationship - the gaslighting, the denial of 'lived experience', forcing women into situations where they feel discomfort, fear and experience harm - it would be outright domestic abuse - coercive control. Forcing someone into a situation where they're feeling something ranging from extreme discomfort to absolute terror.

They are creating an absolutely toxic working environment in which it is impossible for these nurses to behave in the patient's best interest and do a good job - they are walking on eggshells.

I do not consent for my taxes to pay the salaries of abusive bullies. They should be sacked.

A third space for the one man could have solved this a year ago, instead 26 women have been abused for months upon end. Instead of accepting sexual harrassment claims they sided with the harasser. It surely is actual criminal behaviour? Forcing employees to be sexually harassed?

I want these HR people and all who enabled them prosecuted by the police for what they have done to these women.

A spokesperson for County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust said: "The Trust would like to emphasise that at this stage the claims being made are allegations which need to be fully investigated and reviewed. The Trust has initiated this through its internal processes and this work continues.

The EVIL of this. If someone says sexual harassment or assault has happened and the perpetrator is in a place where they can do it again, the correct response is not to let the perpetrator continue to abuse until a year-long investigation reaches its conclusion, in which time many other victims are harmed.

They could stop this with a separate space for this guy while they investigate but, no, they are forcing women - without consent - into situations with this man where they could be harassed and are vulnerable and which discriminate on sex and religion.

This is exactly what happened with Lucy Letby. As soon as there were legitimate concerns, she should have been taken away from work with children so the investigation could happen - that would have been a safeguarding first approach (with no blame on her until proven, but you still put the lives of those children first) but no, she was left in post to harm more children. This man is being allowed to continue in a situation where he knows he can harass with impunity and the NHS trust will support him in his abuse. He will escalate of course. The asking a woman if she's getting changed repeatedly whilst standing close by is super creepy and would scare any woman.

It's just EVIL.

These cases affecting female NHS staff reflect the same contempt for female privacy and boundaries that men who say they are women show in their homes too. It's the same coercive control, voyeurism and flashing daughters often face at home. Children of Transitioners first brought this to the government's attention in the GRA consultation a few years ago
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/gra-inquiry-submission/

-removing female bodily privacy and boundaries from men is one of Stonewall's key aims, as has been pointed out before, it's part of porn culture.
https://womansplaceuk.org/2018/06/25/references-to-removal-of-single-sex-exemptions/

That para is so incomprehensible that I can't believe a native English speaker would write it that way. If you were actually writing about two women, you'd repeat names, as appropriate, to make it comprehensible. Otoh, with male pronouns for the male person, it would be fine. Here's a guess: it was originally written with male pronouns, and then someone edited the pronouns. I wonder who that was?

Great post @dougalfromthemagicroundabout. I have such admiration for these women. To find the courage to stand up to institutional bullying from the NHS in this way - what fantastic role models for women and girls they are.

I do hope they know how many women are supporting them all the way.

This is one of those rare threads where nobody is telling us that the transwoman is in the right.

Marking place fir gardening potential

The usual suspects avoid threads like this like the plague, which is always interesting as they are so very vocal on other threads.

I do feel this case will be one of those land mark moments. The NHS must protect its female workforce. There cannot be anyone in authority who really believes that women should be subjected to this!

Prepared to be surprised there are many of them out there who absolutely do believe women should have no boundaries and just do what they are told.

At least it was always going to be clear that the male person interviewed was never going to prioritise female people. And that it was clear that everyone can tell which human was female to be needed to be re-educated back into support human mode.

Operation: Let them speak just keeps shining a beacon on this. It is remarkable that these extreme acfivists honestly believe that they are winning support with this line of approach.

It will be a landmark case.

It will also blow away the arguments that :

-it never happens
-that a majority of female people are fully accepting
-no one is harmed
-and that there are no communal changing rooms anyway.

I am sad that these women have to do this. But bloody well done, brave women!!!!

I am sure we shall have one soon. Maybe it will be along the line of ‘the women reporting that male person are more acting more egregiously than the male person because [they were in their robes/ could choose to go elsewhere / they are mean / insert misogynist reason ]

Why so hateful? #bekind - isn’t that the usual trite response?

It’s disgusting these nurses have been turned into the bad ones, told by HR they need to be inclusive and accept a man (who is actively trying for a baby with his female partner btw) into their space, that they should allow him to stare at them while they change, that they have no right to feel uncomfortable because he has decided he is a woman. The entire hospital is backing them, it’s vile.

I do hope so. Most trusts now have trans policies that state staff can use any changing room they like as soon as they tell their manager they are transitioning, and uniform policies are often similar though that may vary - these nurses are pictured in scrubs and more areas just use scrubs which solves the problem.

In my work area we have a very small changing room for the large number of staff using it. One wall all lockers, both end walls coat hooks and a few more lockers, back wall has two loos (not floor to ceiling) and one shower cubicle (floor to ceiling) so that is the length of the room. Width ways if I spread my arms and touch the lockers I am one or two feet short of touching the back wall. Quite a few women change in the shower cubicle for modesty. There are two chairs for those of us old enough to need to sit to do up our shoes. Some breastfeeding mothers sit in there to express. I have previously raised the lack of proper facilities for mothers to express milk in privacy with management on behalf of a colleague - told "what a good idea" and nothing more done.

When it is busy you may need to wait or ask politely to get past someone to get at your locker or grab your coat.
If there was a man parading in his boxers you would be likely to find yourself backed up against a penis. Or bend down to tie your shoe laces and next thing you would be face to face with the penis.

I think we'd all be appalled if a man started using our area.

@Chariothorses

I'm a new conmer to all this and just when I thought it couldn't get worse...

" when councils have adopted stonewall training and women's abuse charities won't receive funding unless they permit transitioning men" * not verbatim.

Depressingly the NHS are not only determined to force women to share facilities with men but some Trusts also have policies seeking to place male sex offenders claiming to be women on women's wards. That's how dangerous some senior people in the NHS are:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/trans-sex-offenders-can-go-on-womens-wards-hospitals-advise-0fmbhm3bn

https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/blog/2023-blogs/the-scandal-of-sexual-abuse-in-nhs-hospitals-an-urgent-call-for-action/

@JaneVtwaddle Yes, the cruelty, discrimination and determination to punish and exclude women who can't pretend men are women, continues to shock me.