NHS challenged by women forced to share changing room with transwoman

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

The Daily Mail reporting on a group of 36 nurses complaining that they're forced to share an open plan changing room with a man who claims to be a woman, behaves inappropriately, is sexually active (trying for a baby with his partner) yet is given access to women undressing as he claims to be trans.
Following two formal written complaints where the response was that they needed to be be "more inclusive', 'broaden their mindset' and 'be educated and attend training" six of the nurses are now going to an employment tribunal claiming sexual harassment and sexual discrimination.
Note the article uses he pronouns.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

Following two formal written complaints where the response was that they needed to be be "more inclusive', 'broaden their mindset' and 'be educated and attend training" six of the nurses are now going to an employment tribunal claiming sexual harassment and sexual discrimination.

At my place of work (which has drunk deep of the Kool-Aid) a simple request to ensure that an informal group of women meeting regularly to discuss the menopause was to be kept single-sex women-only, was met with the EDI Officer's response: "Oh, but that would be exclusionary."

Several women stopped participating, because they did not want to discuss personal bodily things in the company of men, however those men might identify.

This EDI officer is about 25 and female, but clearly has no idea what she might be facing in about 25-30 years.

It's bonkers.

And I'm still trying to work out why my post upthread was deleted - I was outlining the way the 2010 Equality Act works in terms of gender reassignment & claims of discrimination.

I'm confused: are we not allowed to call people "trans-identified" ? I've seen it on other threads in FWR ...

You can email MN or report your post and ask, they'll generally tell you the reason for a deletion.

Thanks @ArabellaScott - I've done that before and not really had a clear answer. I sometimes think the mods are a bit testy about asking about deletions in FWR ...

Trans-identified man or TIM was banned by Mumsnet but presumably you can say trans-identified person. I had assumed it was the man bit that was considered taboo rather than the trans identified part but who knows.

Here are the sex/gender talk guidelines.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policyholders

It’s the trans identifying bit that got you deleted sadly - I’ve had the same. You are allowed to say ‘a man who identifies as a woman’ as confirmed by MN in an email when I asked for clarification. Terf also isn’t allowed, so if someone uses that as an insult be sure to let HQ know.

Thanks @Signalbox and @SirChenjins - that fine distinction had eluded me! But that must be why ...

Apols everyone, for going off-topic.

I'll shut up now.

Except that the stuff I have read about this transwoman on Twitter suggest that they are inappropriate in the workplace however they identify - asking a colleague whether she's getting changed? Oh yes, women do that All.The.Time at work.

Like hell we do

Sometimes trans identifying is allowed, sometimes TiM/TiF too. Other times in an apparently identical context it'll be deleted. It'll almost certainly go if it's linked to a specific person. But also, confusingly, if it's used as a generalisation.

I wish these nurses well in their challenge, this is despicable.

If they need any allotment tending sign me up. This needs to be brought kicking and screaming into the sunlight and shown for exactly what it is.

I would so like to test that with a sentence about one of our favourite legal bods. But every time I mention his name and anything connecting him to the fact he's male I get deleted so I'll let someone else try.

A bloke who's pretending a bit harder.

One whose eyebrows and makeup is 'on point' and walks well in 👠?

That'll do it.

Nice to see Janice Forsyth tweeting in support of this. (BBC Scotland radio presenter for the uninitiated)

Happy to.

Defending the rights, spaces and sports of women is what got me kicked off of twitter.
I was angry that the trans mob were able to do this despite what they do.

Are they crowd funding? I’d be totally up for that and also name and shame the hospital. Women shouldn’t have to deal with this level of harassment

Yeah but that leads to the age old question what exactly is a transwoman?

Is a genuine transwoman part of some super duper exclusive club or is, for example, any man who thinks he is a woman a transwoman, even if he only thinks this exclusively between 8:30-8:45am, 5 days a week and when other women are also getting changed? And how do you prove you're genuinely trans to get into the exclusive club if it's the former?

Does this man also think he is a woman when he is using his very womanly penis to very womanly expel very female gametes into his partner to create a baby? Do his sperms also identify as large gametes and does he believe he has to ovulate to release them?

It's all wholly and entirely ridiculous. Of course, by any TRAs literature, he falls under the trans umbrella and therefore those silly wimmen folk are just being daft and not using their eyes properly because they should clearly be able to see he is also a woman.

Update on the nurses. Extremely brave of them to do this openly.
I imagine that 99% of their colleagues are fully behind them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13557965/You-need-reeducated-NHS-nurses-hospital-chiefs-reacted-complained-transgender-colleague-shared-womens-changing-room-stared-got-undressed.html

They are very brave indeed, they know they will receive abuse.

This response from their HR is just so utterly abhorrent:

‘broaden their mindset’, be ‘more inclusive’ and ‘be educated’.

Women - you must strip off in front of men because the men want it, you are not allowed boundaries, you are not allowed to decide who sees you in a state of undress.

It is fucking sick.

Update on the nurses. Extremely brave of them to do this openly.
I imagine that 99% of their colleagues are fully behind them.

It may even feel courageous to the point of reckless ahead of the upcoming probably government.

It doesn't matter if 99% of their colleagues support them inside their heads we're in preference falsification territory. They will be reviled and, at some point, it's probably their professional organisations/unions will denounce them as declare them unworthy of support and to be removed from their professions. (See Chartered Society Physiotherapists et al.)

@Signalbox is there a archived/non pay walled version?

Usual places https://archive.is/p56Ez

A spokesman for County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust said: ‘The Trust would like to emphasise that at this stage the claims being made are allegations which need to be fully investigated and reviewed.
‘The Trust has initiated this through its internal processes and this work continues. However, as the allegations are now also subject to active legal action, it would not be appropriate for the Trust to comment further at this stage.’

x.com/CConcern/status/1805163773038141923

I am so impressed by these clever, brave and articulate women - they're putting their female colleagues (and ultimately their patient's) needs ahead of their own anonymity. I hope that if they need anyone to dig in their garden they will feel free to come to FWR - I would be very proud to be able to show my support.