NHS challenged by women forced to share changing room with transwoman

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

The Daily Mail reporting on a group of 36 nurses complaining that they're forced to share an open plan changing room with a man who claims to be a woman, behaves inappropriately, is sexually active (trying for a baby with his partner) yet is given access to women undressing as he claims to be trans.
Following two formal written complaints where the response was that they needed to be be "more inclusive', 'broaden their mindset' and 'be educated and attend training" six of the nurses are now going to an employment tribunal claiming sexual harassment and sexual discrimination.
Note the article uses he pronouns.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

What rights are specific to trans people that would differ to everyone else though?

Yes, please do tell us what rights trans people are “due” which they don’t already have. Rights are different from privileges.

That was to @Lilacdew

More power to those women. Are they in need of donations?

Once again it’s the Daily Mail, the most hated newspaper by MN’ers, that is publishing this.

And shame on the rest of the press for not covering it.

The Daily Fail is mostly crap but even a stopped clock is right twice a day….

None that differ to anyone else. The rights trans people are due are the rights to go through daily life not being hated or aggressed for being who they are. Some of the rights they ask for may arise from a need for safety - such as changing rooms, loos etc where they are not liable to attack and ridicule. It's not hard to see that this might be desirable or necessary. But it should be obvious to anyone within the trans movement that this need and right cannot and never should jeopardise or eradicate any existing women's rights.

So, that does not include access to female safe spaces, female changing spaces, jobs that are sex-specific for reasons of safety, such as rape crisis counselling or refuges, or the right to compete in female sports.

The point I was making - not clearly enough - is that the trans rights movement would have a lot more support and respect if it recognised that perverted and misogynistic men, men who are not genuinely trans at all, manipulate the trans movement to abuse women with impunity. And the trans movement needs to root out such men and take steps to prove it has no allegiance with them.

Genuine transwomen need to stand together with biological women and recognise this. (By genuine transwomen I mean those who are not perverts, don't get a kick out of flashing their lady tackle in female changing rooms, and don't want a sporting gold at all costs etc etc - yes, they exist - ordinary trans people who just want to go to work, see their mates etc without hassle, they just happen to feel right in themselves if they present themselves in a way that the majority of people would read as feminine not masculine.) If they worked with women to figure out a fair and harmonious way forward, and if they valued and listened to the different needs of women and recognised them to be as valid as their own needs, then the hostilities would ease off. Hostility slows progress. Communication and respect speed it.

Unfortunately, lilacdew, trans people who try to work like that get horrible abuse from trans rights activists.

See Miranda Yardley being sued by Helen Islan, for one example, for 'transphobia' (case was thrown out) .

I'd be curious where this happened. I know someone (I would say a friend but I no longer consider her that) who posted 'fuck terfs' on Facebook recently as part of a bigger TRA post. She's a senior comms/HR manager in the NHS and if she feels free and protected enough to do that I'm in no way shocked that these nurses have been treated so appallingly.

What needs to happen is for a group of decent men to also self ID as women, so that when this man is changing no real woman is in there, but let all these other men go in there and then see how long this chancer wants to keep up with this self-ID pretence.

Hopefully it will scare him off, and then everything can go back to reality.

Brava to those nurses!

Do they have a garden that needs tending?

ordinary trans people who just want to go to work, see their mates etc without hassle, they just happen to feel right in themselves if they present themselves in a way that the majority of people would read as feminine not masculine.) If they worked with women to figure out a fair and harmonious way forward, and if they valued and listened to the different needs of women and recognised them to be as valid as their own needs, then the hostilities would ease off.

No. If they feel that men would ill-treat them for presenting in a more feminine way than expected of a man, then it is those men who need to change and accommodate their fellow men. If they valued and listened to the different needs of women and recognised them to be as valid as their own needs, they would not expect women to give up women's needs to validate men's wants. Women are not service humans for men who feel feminine.

And I did not misread your post. The right to personal belief and personal practice of that belief is enshrined in law. What is not legal is the imposition of that belief and its rituals upon others.

if it recognised that perverted and misogynistic men, men who are not genuinely trans at all,

How can anybody tell the difference?

(Apart from St Layla Moran, of course.)

i really want to hire a male stripper to go to the office or desk of all the people who supported this policy and strip, then sit down and pretend to work and see if they feel uncomfortable. But it wouldn’t be a dignified job to give the stripper.

Very good points (though I don’t actually believe transwomen are frightened other men will attack them in male toilets or changing rooms).

The answer to both questions is that men’s wishes continue to be more important than women’s needs, whether the men are wearing high heels or not. Loud and clear.

What a shame the "progressive" media is ignoring this story.

Genuine transwomen

Love it. What in heavens name is a 'Genuine transwoman'?

Below a certain age and in the absence of appropriate family spaces, this is the only safe option for boys to be safe from adult male molesters. Or at least it was, until adult males started demanding access to female spaces. A six-year-old boy doesn't pose a risk to women.

Surely, taking aubergines out of the kitchen and into the changing room ought to be a disciplinary offence?

I totally agree with you. So there was some confusion about my post. It is not women but the aggressive men who need to be held to account to accommodate transwomen going safely about their days.

Yes, that’s a real mind-bender!

It's 2044.

We finally have a public inquiry. It's led by Ben Cooper who has come out of retirement.

HR managers in this trust are asked questions about why they told these women that they needed to be more inclusive and follow a course of re-education. They don't remember.

Fade to black and plus ça change.

And that's the best outcome. In the increasingly plausible 2044, women under the age of 16 will believe that we've always lived in Gilead, Under His Eye, and in this best of all possible worlds.

Many of us will cease to be part of the becardiganed monolith and be seen walking alone, mumbling to ourselves, in an actual or drug-induced gulag. Because whatever is happening culturally, you can be sure that hysterical women who just need the soothing balm of male intellect or some reality-rearranging drugs can be blamed for it.