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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS challenged by women forced to share changing room with transwoman

248 replies

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/05/2024 07:02

The Daily Mail reporting on a group of 36 nurses complaining that they're forced to share an open plan changing room with a man who claims to be a woman, behaves inappropriately, is sexually active (trying for a baby with his partner) yet is given access to women undressing as he claims to be trans.
Following two formal written complaints where the response was that they needed to be be "more inclusive', 'broaden their mindset' and 'be educated and attend training" six of the nurses are now going to an employment tribunal claiming sexual harassment and sexual discrimination.
Note the article uses he pronouns.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

Nurses made to share changing room with trans colleague to sue NHS

In a formal complaint, the nurses say they were stunned after the 'sexually active' trans nurse admitted to trying for a baby with a female partner and had stopped taking female hormones.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Bumblebee907 · 26/05/2024 08:40

Unacceptable.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 26/05/2024 08:45

334bu · 26/05/2024 08:39

It took the unions 10 years before they deigned to join the fight for female carers to get equal pay in Glasgow. Glasgow had also been a Labour stronghold until 2017 and it was only then that the unions decided that the women's case was worth fighting.

This thread still makes me see a mist.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4998283-dying-without-ever-getting-their-historic-equal-pay

Dying without ever getting their historic equal pay | Mumsnet

Offered a derisory payment, mislead (including by the Unions!), and the pay gap persisted and worsened. *In the years that followed the settlements,...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4998283-dying-without-ever-getting-their-historic-equal-pay

Skyellaskerry · 26/05/2024 08:52

Abitorangelooking · 26/05/2024 07:16

I often wonder if the person telling women they need to be kind / inclusive/ exposed to someone of opposite sex is in that situation themselves. Or do they work in an office so don’t need to get changed on arrival.

It’s a bit like prisons, it’s all very well chucking women under the bus when you believe you’ll never be in that situation. A major problem is unions are so captured that they are failing to properly represent/ protect their members and their rights to single sex spaces.

Unions really need to stop this nonsense and do what their members pay their dues for.

chattyness · 26/05/2024 08:55

Why is it always women who have to give way and be more inclusive ,why aren't the men being told to be inclusive and kind and accept the so called transwomen in their changing room ? Why isn't the so called trans woman being told to "be educated and attend training" so they can understand why women don't want them in their spaces and why they must use their own.

Skyellaskerry · 26/05/2024 08:57

Rainbowshit · 26/05/2024 08:34

I'm so furious that women are being abused in this way by their employers.

This needs to stop. Good on those nurses. I'm behind you all the way.

Completely agree. What a disgrace. I hope they win and there is a lot of publicity about the case.

EasternStandard · 26/05/2024 08:57

needed to be be "more inclusive', 'broaden their mindset' and 'be educated and attend training"

This is so bad. It’s always the response

We need to get out of this harmful ideology

moggerhanger · 26/05/2024 08:58

It's a shame the case is being supported by the Christian Legal Centre - the criticism they've attracted in recent years won't be at all helpful to the optics of this.

AlisonDonut · 26/05/2024 09:00

moggerhanger · 26/05/2024 08:58

It's a shame the case is being supported by the Christian Legal Centre - the criticism they've attracted in recent years won't be at all helpful to the optics of this.

What optics?

334bu · 26/05/2024 09:00

Purity spiral strikes again.

FrancescaContini · 26/05/2024 09:03

chattyness · 26/05/2024 08:55

Why is it always women who have to give way and be more inclusive ,why aren't the men being told to be inclusive and kind and accept the so called transwomen in their changing room ? Why isn't the so called trans woman being told to "be educated and attend training" so they can understand why women don't want them in their spaces and why they must use their own.

Basically: why can’t men fuck off out of women’s spaces?

moggerhanger · 26/05/2024 09:03

CLC is vehemently against gay rights and women's rights, and has been accused of providing poor quality legal advice in an effort to promote its own fundamentalist religious agenda. My fear is that the nurses' legitimate case will become tarnished by association with the CLC.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/archie-battersbee-christian-legal-centre-preying-whitewash/

Wattnow · 26/05/2024 09:06

Anya Palmer's view on the tribunal won by the male NHS worker naked from the waist down in the female changing room:

www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2022/08/07/false-equivalence-a-guest-blog-by-barrister-anya-palmer/

EasternStandard · 26/05/2024 09:07

moggerhanger · 26/05/2024 09:03

CLC is vehemently against gay rights and women's rights, and has been accused of providing poor quality legal advice in an effort to promote its own fundamentalist religious agenda. My fear is that the nurses' legitimate case will become tarnished by association with the CLC.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/archie-battersbee-christian-legal-centre-preying-whitewash/

The bigger relevance is who will represent them in court

If they have decent lawyers it should be irrelevant

Is it your fear or are you undermining?

TheStickySweethearts · 26/05/2024 09:08

Good on them!

RedToothBrush · 26/05/2024 09:08

Let's think about this in legal terms.

Instead of talking about it from the perspective of how it's inclusive, let's turn it on it's head and ask the NHS to explain how it's not discriminatory to women based on their sex and/or religion.

Let's see another reference point.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/24/female-firefighters-in-kent-made-to-strip-to-underwear-in-front-of-male-colleagues
Mon 24 Jul 2023
Female firefighters are being forced to strip down to their underwear in full view of their male colleagues and the wider public, in an “unnecessary, degrading practice” being enforced by an English brigade, their representatives have said.

The Fire Brigades Union (FBU), frustrated at what it sees as “chronic management inaction”, has written to the official inspector to demand an end to the practice at Kent fire and rescue service.

A few months ago a scathing report from His Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary and fire and rescue services (HMICFRS) detailed “deeply troubling” behaviour throughout the emergency service in England.

“Fire stations are workplaces – and it is unacceptable that firefighters are being put in the position of stripping down to their underwear in full view of colleagues, or even the public,” said the FBU general secretary, Matt Wrack.

The union said firefighters were being made to strip down at stations “prior to donning fire kit when attending operational incidents”.

It said it contacted the Kent brigade’s chief fire officer, Ann Millington, in May after concerns were raised via the union’s national women’s committee. The union added: “She also appeared to defend the practice, stating that stripping down to underwear could prevent overheating.”

In the face of Millington’s denial, the FBU said its officials had personally witnessed it happening. In his letter to HMICFRS, Wrack wrote: “To be clear, this is not common practice elsewhere; the accepted practice is that fire kit is donned over cotton workwear.”

So a few things here. A union sees an issue with females stripping down in front of males in other scenarios and there is a comment about it 'not being an accepted practice elsewhere' which I find very notable.

I also seem to recall another court case where the fire service failed to provide female changing facilities but I can't find the details.

Then there's Roz's recent case which I think has indirect implications too.

I wish the NHS well defending this.

It will be interesting to see publicity on this as the government changes too and where Labour then decide to take legislation...

Female firefighters in Kent made to strip to underwear in front of male colleagues, union says

FBU says ‘unnecessary, degrading practice’ at Kent fire and rescue service must end

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/24/female-firefighters-in-kent-made-to-strip-to-underwear-in-front-of-male-colleagues

moggerhanger · 26/05/2024 09:12

EasternStandard · 26/05/2024 09:07

The bigger relevance is who will represent them in court

If they have decent lawyers it should be irrelevant

Is it your fear or are you undermining?

No, I hope they win.

ThereAreNoSloesOnThere · 26/05/2024 09:14

[cracks knuckles]. I feel a little gardening coming on.

AlisonDonut · 26/05/2024 09:14

moggerhanger · 26/05/2024 09:03

CLC is vehemently against gay rights and women's rights, and has been accused of providing poor quality legal advice in an effort to promote its own fundamentalist religious agenda. My fear is that the nurses' legitimate case will become tarnished by association with the CLC.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/archie-battersbee-christian-legal-centre-preying-whitewash/

And yet are literally supporting the rights of women, some of whom are not even Christian, to undress without a man, whether he is wearing boxer shorts with holes in them or not, watching them.

I'm so done with this shit of 'ooh you have the wrong people helping you, this will look bad, put that person down and pick up a person I approve of instead'.

Citrusandginger · 26/05/2024 09:15

HermioneWeasley · 26/05/2024 08:36

The HR team have followed the CIPD guidance. I wish the CIPD were being sued as well

And the Royal College of Nursing who should be representing these nurses, not leaving it to the Christian legal centre.

The RCN no doubt supports the reeducation programme.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 26/05/2024 09:27

The Christian Legal Centre might be funding the nurses' case. According to the Guardian and RationalWiki they are a right-wing Christian group. They were very active in the Archie Battersby case
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/27/critically-ill-infants-christian-legal-centre-court-cases

But with gender ideology they have almost certainly hit on a winner!

(RationalWiki itself is worth a read. Their primary purpose is "Analyzing and refuting pseudoscience and the anti-science movement" but gender ideology/medicine doesn't seem to trouble them even though it ticks most of the items on their pseudoscience checklist. They are a lot more worried about the Religious Right. Motes and beams, boys, motes and beams!)

(updated for missing word)

Faffertea · 26/05/2024 09:28

Presumably female patients on the ward are also being gaslit and being told this male nurse is a woman.

Gardening tools at the ready for this!!

Motnight · 26/05/2024 09:32

Marking my place in case of a gardening opportunity arising.

BCBird · 26/05/2024 09:33

Wtf. Work in school. Will we have boys trans boys asking to get changed with girls next? Absolutely ridiculous.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 26/05/2024 09:35

BCBird · 26/05/2024 09:33

Wtf. Work in school. Will we have boys trans boys asking to get changed with girls next? Absolutely ridiculous.

Oh my sweet summer child that’s already happening