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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 8

1000 replies

Kucinghitam · 16/04/2024 12:11

Continuation of Thread 7.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 7 | Mumsnet

Continuation of [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4861150-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-6? Thread 6]]. There is so much...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4936346-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-7

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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VictorianBigot · 04/07/2024 10:03

There’s a Brighton trans group campaign to boycott pride because the inclusion of Labour, the police, British Airways, Costa, Coca Cola, Christians and the University of Sussex, as well as this ‘almost’ inclusion of an alleged TERF group makes them feel unsafe.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 04/07/2024 10:07

What have British Airways, Costa, and Coca Cola done? I assume it's not a prinicled stand against the commercialisation of protest.

VictorianBigot · 04/07/2024 10:12

According to their Instagram:

BA - deports LGBTQ+ migrants
Costa, Coca Cola and U of Sussex - genocide enablers

Their tagline is anti-deportation, anti-genocide, anti-pig, ‘and of course, anti-fucking-TERF’.

It would also seem that only anti-Zionist Jews are welcome.

Kucinghitam · 04/07/2024 10:20

VictorianBigot · 04/07/2024 10:12

According to their Instagram:

BA - deports LGBTQ+ migrants
Costa, Coca Cola and U of Sussex - genocide enablers

Their tagline is anti-deportation, anti-genocide, anti-pig, ‘and of course, anti-fucking-TERF’.

It would also seem that only anti-Zionist Jews are welcome.

But they're "inclusive" of course.

OP posts:
MarieDeGournay · 04/07/2024 10:20

Costa, Coca Cola and U of Sussex - genocide enablers

But do TRAs mean literal genocide, or literal genocide?

VictorianBigot · 04/07/2024 10:24

It must be exhausting trying to keep track of all the things and people they hate and that make them feel unsafe. I mean, there's an awful lot to dislike in this world.

SinnerBoy · 04/07/2024 10:38

I'm a little bit surprised. If you'd have told me two years ago that I'd be voting for a feminist party, I'd probably have looked askance.

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2024 10:38

NoBinturongsHereMate · 04/07/2024 10:01

A lot of the same arguments apply to voting for a candidate you know won't win. Possibly even more strongly because it doesn't rely on someone reading the spoiled ballot to know what policies you favour.

It does shed an interesting light on the recent flood of 'Don't spoil your ballot - nobody looks, nobody counts, nobody cares' posts.

The 'no one cares' and the 'no one looks at spoiled ballots' crew don't want you to make a point. If you make a point then the risk is they have to pay attention.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 04/07/2024 10:54

This has really made me smile.

https://x.com/IMissHitchSlaps/status/1808783883686572266

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 8
lcakethereforeIam · 04/07/2024 11:02

😄 🦕 ❤️

PepeParapluie · 04/07/2024 11:03

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 04/07/2024 10:54

Edited

Me too! Love the idea of stomping down there 😁

duc748 · 04/07/2024 11:27

Interesting piece, Bint. Can't say I'd ever thought about that deeply! Usually on GE day I vote en route to the pub, but I think I'll stroll down after lunch when it might be a bit busier. It's at the local primary school, so I can do a quick check on rainbows in the corridors whilst I'm at it! Never spoilt before in my life, so that's a first.

BezMills · 04/07/2024 11:55

I may well go in my dragon onesie - it will take a little bit of logistics because I'm voting straight after the gym, so need to remember to bring it along.

( I will NOT be doing aerobics wearing a polyester kigurumi dragon onesie. I tried that once, overheated almost immediately )

VictorianBigot · 04/07/2024 11:59

It’s annoying the GE has been called in the summer. At any other time of year I can see the local polling station from my flat and enjoy watching the comings and goings.

SqueakyDinosaur · 04/07/2024 12:09

I am veering between laughter and rage at this: https://x.com/MrMennoTweets/status/1808614221871206612

x.com

https://x.com/MrMennoTweets/status/1808614221871206612

PepeParapluie · 04/07/2024 12:13

SqueakyDinosaur · 04/07/2024 12:09

I am veering between laughter and rage at this: https://x.com/MrMennoTweets/status/1808614221871206612

Sad Kristen Bell GIF

It’s hilarious, and then you realise it’s also true 😩

duc748 · 04/07/2024 12:20

Mr M nails it again! 😄

BezMills · 04/07/2024 12:23

I can't even. It's epic

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2024 12:30

An ancedote which you can take with a huge pinch of salt if you wish but feeds back to the ballot spoiling / making a protest above and a comment on how the campaigning has taken notice of predicted turnout.

Some I know was talking online earlier this week to a bunch of people. They know some well but not all of them. They talk reasonably regularly as part of a community. (Being deliberately vague here) One was male but does not identify as male. This guy was not a happy bunny. He said they had been considering voting Starmer but since he came out as a terf they were thinking about going to the polling station and drawing around their dick instead in protest.

So Starmer is upsetting a few and it is getting noticed. Why take this risk? Why has Starmer pitched more to GCs and this message has hardened over the past week or so. Interestingly, if I had to hazard a guess, based on the wording from this guy I get the impression I was told he's the type of person who says they vote but won't so Starmer can afford to lose his none existant vote. It was a 'I can't be arsed type attitude but I want to make a point online' hot air type comment.

I've been saying about focus group work and suspecting that Labour is noticing theres something up and being more nervous than they should be. Labour's vote traditionally is less reliable in terms of turnout than the Conservative one - one of the things today to look out for is low turnout. I am expecting a particularly low turnout as no one is particularly enthused by Starmer even if they hate the Tories. Younger voters are much more unlikely to vote than older voters. Traditionally habitual older Conservative voters, vote without fail at every election. We may well see Reform do well as part of this dynamic btw. Why is turnout important? By-elections by nature tend to be low turnout votes and they often are much more violatile and unpredictable than General Election votes. They are more prone to bigger swings and unexpected results.

Normally I'd have a punt at trying to work out how the result will go. I'll have a fair idea of the mood and how strong feelings are. Polling also tends to be fairly consistent between different pollsters. Not this time around. I genuinely haven't got a clue how it will go, apart from a Labour win. I think the margin is so high, theres no danger of Labour not winning. The result comes down to turnout. You can see how the Conservatives have been pushing on this and Boris Johnson being wheeled out to rally the troops - and interesting there seems to be a slight uptick in favour of the Cons in the last few days (not unexpected because it'll be about weighing on likelihood to vote which is fairly typical and in like with historic patterns). Thats on of the reasons we are seeing so many scolding type posts on MN too. Its about trying to whip up would be Labour voters to turn out rather than sit at home in disillusionment. The pollsters being so broad in their predictions of the result are reflective of the turnout issue - its whats going to be talked about A LOT gone 10pm tonight.

This is a pollster from IPSOS earlier this morning

Keiran Pedley AT Keiranpedley
Could turnout be a story this election? Our prediction poll has 70% certain to vote - down from 80% in 2019. Surveys usually overstate turnout. In reality 2019 was 67% from 80% CTV. But working backwards from 70% CTV now don't be surprised if turnout is in the 50s this time.

Key analysis from AT CameronGarrett yesterday on turnout. % saying 10 out of 10 certain to vote in penultimate AT IPSOSUK poll by age vs penultimate 2019 poll All: 65% (-9) 18-34: 46% (-21)! 35-54: 65% (-6) 55+: 79% (-3) Turnout with younger people could be a real issue.
See graph below post:

Its worth looking on twitter for comments on turnout today. There usually are some saying whether early turnout is low or whether the number of returned postal votes is high etc etc before the polls close. Naturally it could completely go the other way and IPSOS might be wrong.

I note here, that there hasn't been a calculation by Labour to try and pivot towards promoting Self ID in order to encourage young voters to turn out. Given the numbers above thats interesting. Neither has he seemingly courted younger voters on other issues to encourage them to turnout. Again interesting decision.

Going back to the ancedote I confess I was slightly gobsmacked at what I was told above about this guys 'protest' - not quite believing it despite who told me and frankly I bet theres a bunch of people who read this post and say I'm making up bullshit. We've seen a lot of crap and unbelievable stuff around these parts and its still has the ability to take me by surprise.

I pointed out to the person who told me, that the psychology of the comment is utterly fascinating.

Women wanting to protest talk about dressing up as dinosaurs. But a male? No he talks about making a protest about voting whilst using his dick as part of it. Even if this is only a verbal comment and he has no intention whatsoever of doing it (no idea if dinosaur lady will actually do it either), its so revealling. The penis remains symbolic of male power over women. And actually thats where I do think its credible even as a random anecdote on the internet, because we keep seeing this pattern thanks to the likes JKR's bestie on twitter.

No one responded to this guy kicking off apparently. The group is liberal minded from what I'm told, they are notably younger than me, but apparently theres a certain amount of eye rollers in it regardless.

Its fascinating to see how the issue of women's rights has slowly crept up the agenda at this election. Those intention to vote figures do give a huge insight into whats going on. I was watching one of the political shows last night and 'transrights' came one of the most talked about subjects - it was also the one people thought was being talked about too much. I don't quite get why people were saying this - is it because they think trans rights is being pushed too hard and is a threat or is it disillusionment with women campaigners trying to protect rights (it could be either or both and a problem with how the question was worded so I'm cautious here).

But yes, interesting for political nerds like me.

Go vote. Vote for who you want. Spoiling is better than not spoiling as it shows your vote is available to those who want to court your concerns.

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 8
CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 04/07/2024 12:40

The shelf for leaning on is quite high up at my polling station - you’d need to be very tall to put your dick on it.

i have no trouble believing that someone would say such a thing tho.

Anyway, I live in the NW where a vote for Labour is a vote for the status quo rather than a vote for change.
I expect a lower than 2017/2019 turnout (we had a pitiful by election that was very low but I will discard that as an anomaly- I honestly think a lot of people didn’t even notice there was an election election taking place that time).

duc748 · 04/07/2024 12:41

I just popped into that crazy Aussie site to have a look. They've got round to that case of a female boxer who discovered she was going in the ring with a male shortly before the fight (USA, Canada?). Anyway, the take from these loons was, MMA fighters fight against people with different weights all the time, she should just suck it up. And she did far worse by misgendering him. Talk about, they walk among us! 🙄One or two posters were standing up them, but the loons have the backing of the site moderators. Who are very concerned about 'anti-trans rhetoric'. I'm not going there, there's no point in giving these people bandwidth.

SqueakyDinosaur · 04/07/2024 12:42

Also, the booths are open! I bet that this guy has never actually voted.

He should look at the new Playmoland thread on here to see how it all works.

PepeParapluie · 04/07/2024 12:44

It made me laugh the idea of not identifying as male but using your dick in protest. 😅 what could be more male!?

VictorianBigot · 04/07/2024 12:45

He said they had been considering voting Starmer but since he came out as a terf they were thinking about going to the polling station and drawing around their dick instead in protest.

I must remember to take my own pencil and a couple of dettol wipes.

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