Rosie Duffield and Kellie-Jay Keen

[Universalfamily]

There seems to have been some kind of issue between the two of them today.
What's occurring?

Yes exactly.
I don't understand really why KJK gets so upset if she doesn't feel she is "getting credit". It's almost like she thinks "adult human female" should be copyrighted to her. Which is a ridiculous idea.

Poor Rosie Duffield. Turned on by all sides.

‘Poor Rosie Duffield. Turned on by all sides’.

Stop making stuff up. The only side who turned on Rosie Duffield, is her own side. The slimy weasely (a word made up but it does suit them so) Labour Party. They still haven’t apologised.

They abdicated responsibility and failed to safeguard children. They should be out of their jobs for doing so. Government policy is supposed to be evidence based and in so many areas it has not been but rather driven by lobby groups with dubious motivations and no evidence base.

And if it wasn't for women like RD and KJK, the juggernaut of children harmed would still be gaining speed so thank goodness for both of them.

Though I would say it's not all governors and not all schools (my Dd's follows the law and safeguarding and has single sex spaces). Those who capitulated should be out of their jobs, particularly in the civil service.

Maybe it would have been good if RD had included KJK, maybe she had catty reasons not to, or maybe it was an oversight, or maybe her reasons were valid.

I kind of think it isn't that important and it was pretty petty for KJK to mention it in any way and it makes her look shallow and vain. And I am usually pretty appreciative of her approach.

She didn't. Other women pointed it out. She then mentioned that it was Rosie that first looked to her for support rather than the other way round.

She really shouldn't have said anything though.

It's not that I think she is wrong to feel annoyed or however she feels. But some things it's not useful at all to comment publicly about.

You know, women who are conservatibe or against abortion are also allowed to object to their children being abused by the medical system. And they don't have to shut up about their other political views to be heard about it.

But I really wonder - Do you understand that the issue is not actually access to things like contraception - it is access without the knowledge of the parents.

You can make exactly the mirror image of the argument you have made. Girls who are being abused and exploited aren't picked up, even when they are underage, because doctors provide them contraception and abortion without much questioning, and the parents have no idea what is going on. The medical system is essentially enabling these girls being sexually exploited and cutting their parents, who are the ones who care about them most and know what their lives are like, out of the picture. Unlike doctors who just get the story the girl tells them and often aren't in a position to question it. Or in some cases just believe they have to let the kids do whatever they want and provide contraception because there is no point is trying to stop them from getting into bad situations. (This is where some of the contributing attitudes to the grooming gang stuff in the medical field comes from, IMO. It's totally embedded in the normal way girls sexual health is managed.)

This scenario isn't a fantasy, it's pretty common, and actually I think something feminists ought to be pretty concerned about. Recent events with gender ideology perhaps makes some of the ideas many feminists assumed were solid, about removing parental oversight in teenagers, on less sure ground. They did, after all, come out of a period that could be rather blase and permissive about the possibility of young girls being sexually exploited. There is nothing wrong with reconsidering this sort of thing.

Hard agree.

I don’t know whether changes are needed, but there’s nothing wrong in talking about it. It’s a step we took thinking of scenario a, but it has implications for scenarios b-z as well.

So what.

Women are 50% of the population. We were all threatened. We don’t all get along.

Both Rosie and Kellie-Jay are brave strong women who stuck their heads above the parapet and took the punishment. I can believe they are very different, but both have been superb in fighting the fight for women.

I find the constant criticism of KJK wearing and patronising. Strong women are always likely to rub some people up the wrong way. I don’t give a stuff if KJK and Duffield don’t get on. Why does it matter so much to Adam and others. They should be celebrating the falling of the house of cards rather than some side-show gossip.

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I don’t get it @Needmoresleep , Rosie Duffield thanked the people she wanted to thank and rather than send a dm kjk requesting acknowledgement (if that’s what she wanted) decided to be publicly irritated that she wasn’t thanked. But your conclusion is this was somehow indicative of ‘constant criticism’ of kjk?

Not quite, @Scotcheggz

RD tweeted thanking various people. People pointed out KJK had been left out. KJK acknowledged that.

KJK gets left out of quite a lot of lists and events, as she’s not in the same mould as many of the more networked women.

When her supporters raise that she’s been left out, people jump to list all the reasons she’s too awful to be allowed on the list/in the room.

Fortunately she’s still very effective with no support from the more establishment feminists.

I think the hoping KJK 'really shouldn't have said anything' boat sailed long ago.

It's KJK saying something that meant Rosie called her in the first place.

No. You are clearly new to these parts.

The very mention of KJK is like catnip to a certain type of poster, only too keen to seize on even the slightest hint of a fall out between her and others.

Tedious. Rosie thanks who she wants to thank. She has walked a long and lonely road. She also acknowledges KJKs role in bringing the issue to her attention.

I think it's a shame Rosie Duffield didn't respond to the original complaints with, 'Piss off thank you letter police, I will acknowledge whomever I like.'

Yes. And KJK really ought to have said the same and left it at that.

I can’t start to imagine how tough life has been for Rosie, Keliie-Jay or any of our wonderful pioneering women.

They will be stressed. Their imperfections will be in the spotlight.

Let’s be realistic, value the positives and stop nitpicking.

Yep, from what I can see I agree with KJK on few subjects. And despite forming a party, she isn't really a politician.

RD and she obvs have beef - there is enough room for both to exist without being connected

😄

Very well put.

Her USP hasn't changed.

Girls who are being abused and exploited aren't picked up, even when they are underage, because doctors provide them contraception and abortion without much questioning, and the parents have no idea what is going on. The medical system is essentially enabling these girls being sexually exploited and cutting their parents, who are the ones who care about them most and know what their lives are like, out of the picture.

I don't think providing contraceptives is in any way causing a problem. Some teenagers have sex underage. Always have, always will. Lots of teenagers don't talk to their parents about this stuff and lots of abused teenagers aren't lucky enough to have parents who care about them much, or even parents at all.

The last thing any teenager needs is either a pregnancy or an abortion, regardless of their circumstances. And no contraception doesn't mean no sex. It means higher risk sex.

Teenage pregnancy rates have dropped since Gillick competence.

Providers strongly encourage under 18s to have a trusted adult with them for abortion care. BPAS say that will never refuse treatment but if a child attends an appointment for an abortion procedure without an adult (and the adult can't be male) they may not be able to perform the treatment on that day.

The idea that 15 year olds are rocking up to clinics to have abortions with no adult knowing about it is a right-wing troupe aimed at keeping girls and women powerless, in the home and preferably breeding.

Thank you x

I'd like to keep my underage girls in the home where they belong, thank you very much! And my underage boys. The fact is, best practice is not always followed, but there's never any proper inquiry because 'it's a right-wing conspiracy theory'. Now where have we heard that before ... 🤔

However, on the main point, I don't see any other option than allowing medical professionals to provide contraception.

And the number of rapes?

Endemic in schools but it's all fine, we can just bung them a morning after pill, right?

What does Gillick Competence/contraception have to do with how many rapes are happening in schools? They are completely separate issues.

Of course we'd like all children to be safe at home. Sadly, many kids don't have that as an option.

Sexual violence in schools is a separate, serious issue. Which wouldn't be prevented by stopping girls having access to contraception and abortion.

Saying that something is a right-wing troupe isn't the same as saying it's a conspiracy story. You do know that, right?