Rosie Duffield and Kellie-Jay Keen

[Universalfamily]

There seems to have been some kind of issue between the two of them today.
What's occurring?

I agree that lists are a minefield. Probably best just to stick to "Thanks to everyone who has helped get us this far" or similar.

Couldn’t agree with this more! Leave Rosie alone FFS.

Rosie can say what she thinks but KJK can't and neither can we it would appear.

KJK was the first person to really launch a high profile resistance and push back on all this rubbish. The billboards being reproduced in different countries. She also has been supportive of women internationally. Women in countries such as Ireland where the political power has reverted to stomping on women’s rights. The U.S. And, not forgetting Australia and the danger she was left to face in NZ without any police protection. They left her to face a danger on her very life.

She shores up women in so many ways, small and huge. I am thankful for all crumbs, but women who want/need to keep in with the political parties, organisations etc. are more likely to compromise to keep their ‘acceptable’. It is because women like KJK are out there roaring and not pulling punches on the truth and enormity of what is happening that they can be more muted.

That’s is the problem with lists thanking people - you always leave people out who think they should be mentioned and it upsets people unnecessarily: there are countless examples at the Oscars.

I, for one, think KJK is the only type of women to bring gender issues to the wider attention of women en mass: she has a reach & appeal that academics and others simply don’t have. She is as political as it gets. Her Let Women Speak events across the country and also in the US, Australia and New Zealand are genius in their simplicity: look what happens when women try to speak!! What it must take to organise these events I can’t begin to imagine.

And I watched her live in New Zealand thinking I was going to watch her be murdered.

She is a very, very brave woman and the movement against gender ideology has a lot to thank her for.

Rosie Duffield has been outstanding and brave on this issue. That can never be taken away from her. However, at the end of the day she is a woman of the political left, and purity of association is a massive requirement to be in that club. Even as her Labour sisters shunned her (that’s what the left does when you challenge the Borg) she never left the party (perhaps this is admirable- I found it a little sad) and she will revert to purity type politics once this issue settles.

KJK lets all women speak. She doesn’t have favourites and never applies a purity test. She would hand the microphone so a radical leftist lesbian could speak, then next hand it on to a pro-life Christian conservative tradwife so she could speak. She doesn’t judge.

This would never be tolerated by the political left.

Unless you go with a Radio 1 style “and anyone else who knows me” ending, listing people is always a risk, RD is perfectly entitled to praise who she wants. Does KJK always acknowledge everyone broadly on the same side? She appears to have been pretty robust in her criticism of people & organisations that don’t completely tow her line. She too has every right to praise/criticise who she likes.

This seems like an unnecessary exercise in creating conflict.

It was less the list but the exchange where RD said she was thanking people at the political heart of the debate that raised my radar. As ever, there's an "intellectual" self-congratulatory clique convinced that they alone have shifted the needle. I find them indistinguishable from Owen Jones and friends in their mentality save for our agreement on one issue.

I agree about lists, someone will always be left out.

But, in this case, isn't it because Rosie had already sought out KJK, in the past? Presumably for some kind of input from her? Long before anyone else was sticking their neck out about this?

Because whilst women everywhere have been, what was it? "blanked, sidelined and dismissed”, no one can deny that KJK has repeatedly risked everything to let women speak.

KJK can say what she thinks but Rosie can’t …

As someone who appreciates some of what each of them do, but isn’t an out and out fanboy, this all seems very childish. "Miss, Alexandria was mean to me!" Yes, I am dismissing this as a storm in a teacup.

See this is where I disagree. They are clearly not ‘indistinguishable’ from the likes of OJ. These are women who have been fighting against trans ideology to a greater or lesser extent for years. Often at great personal cost.

As ever, these threads deviate women from the task in hand - maybe the purpose? Who knows.
We need to be keeping an eye on the analysis of Cass and the impact to see where our attention needs to go next, rather than debating who's thanked who.

You can guarantee that those determined to transition children will currently be looking for every loophole. Eyes on the prize and all that.

I keep hearing about enormous personal costs but what's not said is that some have done very well out of this with book deals, tours, columns, and recognition they lacked in previous careers. We don't hear about the truly cancelled because they are, you know, cancelled and, quite often, have been bullied by some of the names on Rosie's list.

My debt is to ordinary women who collectively shifted the needle and not the managerials.

'Come over all Maleficent about it"
Love this😂

She can thank whoever she likes, and ignore anyone she likes, for the reasons she likes.

But we know that she didnt exclude KJK for not being 'at the political heart of this'. That's a lie.

Ive always been convinced that a labour government will not introduced legislation to protect wonen and children against gender ideology. Whatever is achieved under the tories will be as far we can go. So it doesnt surprise me that labour politicians are talking as if the fights been won and its been a mainly left wing battle, because rosie knows nothing else is going to happen.

She doesn’t judge.
Apart from women she's fallen out with. And women who aren't as GC as her. She definitely does judge those women.

some have done very well out of this with book deals, tours, columns, and recognition they lacked in previous careers
Yep. Monetised you tube, paid appearances on news and current affairs programmes etc.

One man who did make Rosie's list made an estimated £100k+ in the last year with a very lucrative substack (written by women who he doesn't pay)/book/TV appearances/speaking tour and was bullying LWS steward DJ Lippy on TwiX yesterday.

Quite right, and of course, the heroic Glinner.

In this instance, I was just speaking about women.

But I take on board what people are saying about divisiveness, so won't go on about it.
The fight ain't over yet.

How is this materially different from either the TRA/OJ/Billy Bragg's 'oo they haven't really been cancelled' or the cries of "KJK sells an awful of of t-shirts". Or is only bad when people you disagree with do it?

Ultimately, I don't think threads picking over this achieve any more than (is it 3 now) threads on KJK's 'insane rants'. Each to their own though, I guess.

This.

agree- disappointing from Rosie (who has been amazing). KJK can bask in the knowledge that her integrity can never,ever be called into question.

Oh, I wasn't aware yesterday's bullying but it would be in keeping of his trashing women he dislikes before half a million followers.

I was once in a group with him when he was being sued by Hayden for, I think, the second time. I'm not unsympathetic: we all know that Hayden is a litigious lunatic. But he said he was going to ask for a £65,000 "war chest" - a surplus to spend as he wished. My own case cost £6000 in the end and £65,000 is just ludicrous when you're at the point of exchanging correspondence and will almost certainly settle. That was a huge disappointment because it looked very much like the grift TRAs accuse us of. Add in the copying/pasting of women's tweets for his Substack and I think he's not in this for entirely honourable reasons.

Recently, he's cut off an Irish LGB group for questioning Stella O'Malley's remarks about butch lesbians bring like AGPs - indeed, he announced privately that anyone challenging Stella / Genspect should not be promoted or platformed. I can't, therefore, see how his behaviour is any different from the bullying and ostracisation that he claims to have experienced.

😂 that's really tickled me...