Rosie Duffield and Kellie-Jay Keen

[Universalfamily]

There seems to have been some kind of issue between the two of them today.
What's occurring?

Also
https://twitter.com/gorettihorgan/status/1778798078474011048

She is very clear she is against "gillick competence" and children taking "quite harmful contraceptives". Watch the video.

Given how effective a campaigner she has been on women's sex based rights this does really concern me. Some teenage girls have sex underage. Some of those girls are being groomed and abused. Needing to see a medical professional for contraception is a way those girls might get picked up so it's helpful for safeguarding. In any case the last thing we need is pregnant teenagers who don't want to be.

Not relevant to the Duffield point, except maybe RD also isn't that comfortable to appear to advocate some of these positions. Fair enough IMO

Not in the political arena??? That is so bizarre, she runs a grassroots campaign and has started her own political party. She is way more political than everyone Rosie namechecks.

It's very weird how KJK is overlooked. Really weird. Can't say I blame her for pointing that out but shame she has to do it.

I'm not sure why this is even an argument. From what I know of her, KJK is very black and white about the issue - gender dysphoria just doesn't exist for her. That's why she's rejected the report - because she rejects any kind of professional care, other than 'just snap out of it'. I think it's probably that approach that others want to distance themselves from. Which I think is a reasonable approach.

It grows out of the transing of children, particularly hiding it from their parents.

I don’t think questioning whether 16 yr olds should be taking medication without their parents’ knowledge is unreasonable.

I think we could have a conversation about whether the morning after pill should be given without parents’ knowledge.

I think children have been sexualised and we should discuss that.

I don’t think, personally, that I would want the anything changed- certainly not while children are so very sexually active- but I think we could be talking about whether that’s desirable.

We try and keep kids away from alcohol, why are we so laid back about hormones?

Alcohol, cigarettes, cars; we're warned to keep them off phones (bit of a losing battle! but still ...), but hormones, puberty blockers and the contraceptive pill - better just give to them or something worse will happen! It's all about scaring parents, making them feel powerless to give their children the love and support they need.

Sorry, are you saying telling teenagers to "snap out of it" is a reasonable approach? Do you have teenagers? 😂

Some posters may need to stop and think what they are advocating for. If it becomes accepted that girls under the age of 16 are given contraceptive pills, then surely that is reducing the age of consent, by stealth.

Puberty blockers cause harm.
Contraceptives prevent it.
It is not hard. Every time a female is pregnant/gives birth she risks her health and life. Some teenagers have sex under age - always have, always will. They need contraception.
No teenagers need hormone blockers so it's a false equivalence.

No! Sorry, that was criptic! I meant, I think It's reasonable for people who want to be taken seriously as the 'reasonable', non-toxic side of the argument to distance themselves from her black and white thinking, even if she has been brave in many ways.

Girls who satisfy the Gillick criteria for competence ie do they understand what they are doing and fall within the Fraser guidelines have been able to access contraception when under 16 for decades now. This has reduced teenage pregnancy rates because not having access to contraception doesn't stop teenagers having sex.

Thanks! I agree....

I know. We had that debate already in the 80's. If it's all blown up again, you can thank the people who spent the last ten years undermining parents' trust in government, schools and the medical profession. KJK is the symptom, not the cause.

Well, at risk of sounding like a broken record...she is a good campaigner. She needs to recognise that and not campaign for things that harm girls. Such as no access to contraception until 16.

She's an amateur. I think that's what RD was trying to say nicely. What happened was, the actual experts were nowhere to be seen, so this complete amateur stepped in. If that's gone a little wrong, is that such a surprise?

OK. Fair enough. A lot of women think she's a ground breaking, innovative campaigner though.
FWIW I agree with you that she is amateur but it's not a popular view 😂

The thing about free speech, is that it's for everybody. That's the point of it- ordinary people (amateurs) saying 'we're not happy about this'. It gets a bit messy at times, but it has it's place.

Think that ship might have sailed ... like, about 4 decades ago!

There's a difference between 'an amateur' (not professionally employed to do a thing, but still good at it) and 'amateur' (not good at the thing). Still, at least you didn't call her 'amateurish'......

I think she is a talented campaigner and with great power comes great responsibility. She misses the latter.

I meant the first one. I mean, she is, quite literally, an amateur when it comes to the details of government policies or difficult questions of medical ethics. Why is an amateur campaigning to protect our children and our single-sex spaces? What happened to the MPs, school governors, medical professionals, NSPCC etc. etc.?

Why is an amateur campaigning to protect our children and our single-sex spaces? What happened to the MPs, school governors, medical professionals, NSPCC etc. etc.?

yes, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it

Kellie Jay is frontline, literally. She is pushing the line the hardest out of anyone. She is saying what needs to be said, with no fucks given. And she's not just saying it at home, or in her work place, or on her facebook page. She is literally taking to the streets and standing in front of baying mobs and saying it. And she deserves a fucking crown for that.

I think though, that everyone needs to repsect each other and respect each other's position in all this madness. Everyone is doing different work in different ways.

I'm sure Rosie Duffield would have loved to put her on that list of women, and I can see why she didn't. Working everyday with colleagues determined to get you fired and scrutinising your every word and every action, it would be risky to thank Kellie-Jay. The people desperate to take Rosie down could quite easily find ammunition to 'prove Rosie is transphobic', and no doubt they would be relentless.

Of all the women, Posie will be the last to get the thanks she deserves, because she is on the frontline. However she wll be the one that is most remembered, for her bravery and for her truth speaking.

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!

But ME! What about MEEEEEEE!?

What about you JumpnowJumphigh??

So many women who have given so much publicly to this fight are 'amateurs' ie not professional campaigners.

Maya F, Allison B, Magdalene B, Sonia A, Stephanie D-A, JK, JCJ, Helen J, Helen H, Helen S, Rachel R, Heather B-E, the list goes on and on.

Also MPs and medical professionals - Joanna C, Rosie D, Emma N, Sue and Marcus Evans and so on. Sue Evans voiced concerns about GIDS 20 years ago.

There are also women quietly fighting from inside captured organisations - WPUK and LWD spring to mind. And so many more not in the public domain for obvious reasons.