There's nothing I can do about this, is there?

[Acunningruse]

Visited a different city today for work and went to a branch of Caffè Nero. I was served by what was very clearly a man, despite his attempt to look female and the fact he was wearing a she/her badge. Said man was wearing extremely tight leggings which, as he was wearing a waist-length t-shirt, meant his manhood was obviously visible. His appearance was a source of mumbling/muttering in the queue and he seemed to be enjoying the attention with a lot of hair-flicking.

I m not able to articulate why this made me so uncomfortable- other than the fact that no way in hell would I want to share a bathroom or changing room with this person.

But there's nothing at all to be done, is there? As any objection would surely be met with accusations of "discrimination " and "be kind".

Just so so frustrating. I just wanted to scream "you are not a woman!!!!" But I can't, can I.

I'm gender critical but the OP and this thread comes off as transphobic. I believe very strongly that trans women are not women. They are men wishing they were woman or under the grip of a delusion if they think they are women. But they can never overcome the genetic hurdles. I also believe that sex based rights for woman must always take precedence over trans rights.

But attacking an individual at work over clothing choices and hairstyle (and going further to allege exhibitionism for sexual gratification) isn't really helpful to the argument. It's just bullying, and other people stop listening, and assume the whole GC argument must come from a place of irrationality. That's my view anyway.

Not sure you're going to be taken that seriously starting off with a TS lyric but there you go.

You do realise problem can care about more than one problem, at the same time? That's the thing about customer service (clue is in the name), the customer can complain about the service if they so wish.

What I’d be asking myself is, if a female was dressed in such revealing clothing in the same situation, would I complain? The answer is most likely ‘no’. I would internally tut, likely roll my eyes and think ‘did they look in a mirror this morning’ and in the instance you described I’d feel a bit sad that a young man believes fake boobs and long hair makes him a woman.
My local Costas branch has an assistant that is clearly trans. He's very effeminate, wears make up and has boobs. His name badge is a female name. But he's really good at his job, always pleasant, and causes me absolutely no harm. Fortunately, Costas uniform means that his genitals would not be on show were he to wear leggings.
Your issue is down to the dress code of the shop, not the staff member who's dressed inappropriately for the job.

This. The view that all transwomen are harmless folk, needing understanding and care, is deluded. A number of them are frankly very dangerous.

The transwoman I worked with 20 years ago did not dress or behave in a way likely to cause any concern. The person OP has described, however, is very different.

Come on dude. Don't push other people's genitals on people you don't know. It's groomer-y. We've all seen enough genitals in our lives to know where our line is. You may not agree with where hers is, but don't be so excessively patronising.

You have no idea why someone is "uptight" and the reasons could be quite serious actually. Check yourself.

Leggins in general should be banned. Don't want to see a camel toe either tbh. They're inappropriate with a short T-shirt in any workplace

Good on you OP, it sounds like they took your complaint seriously and have dealt with it accordingly.

To me it's not the feeling of being threatened at all by this or these kinds of people. It's down to being inappropriate in public, whether that's dress or something else.
I'm sorry but it's the deliberate pro-activity of it that annoys me. "This is me, I'll do what I like and if you say anything, you're a bully and a trans-ist".
I have two trans friends, (both male to female, now both post op) but even before that, they didn't look out of place. And they certainly didn't waggle their bits around! They dressed as appropriately as they could for the stage they were at! And tried to blend in as quietly as possible.
The person at the cafe sounds to me like an exhibitionist, rather than a genuine trans person. And I have seen plenty of those, it's like a fad rather than a true gender issue. It's attention seeking. Over exaggerating of mannerisms, inappropriate clothing - nothing to me about that shows a true reflection of what being trans actually is.
It sounds contrary, given what I've said so far, but to me, there are also only two genders. Don't get me wrong, I genuinely have every sympathy for anyone who feels like they were born in the wrong body. And good on them if they achieve peace and find happiness. I fully support that. But a man is still a man, a woman still a woman.
With the person in the cafe, it comes across as " because I can", nothing else.
Eddie Izzard is this, for a prime example. He has always professed to being a cross dresser. It started with just nail varnish, then that and skirts, then those and heels, add on blouses... He's now more and more towards displaying himself as a female, without any mention of trans leanings. And having seen him recently on tv, that is a typical case of "because he can" too! Mmm, how far can I push this?! And he looks ridiculous.
That's just my opinion.

Well done for following up @Acunningruse

God sakes, you really do miss the point. The mind fuck this causes when a visibly male person is dressed and acting like a female while displaying obviously male genitalia is extremely uncomfortable, as is being made to participate in someone else’s sexual fetish without your consent.

Having to participate in someone else’s sexual fetish without your consent is, quite understandably upsetting.

goldfish: 'if truly [sic] have time enough on your hands to go and make some stranger miserable because you laid eyes on his penis for a few seconds...'

Ricky Gervais had an answer to this.😂

Same here @Maray1967

As soon as the OP described Caffe Nero bloke I had a mental image of Isla Bryson.

tough call, what is the more discrediting, quoting Ricky Gervais or Taylor Swift..in terms of being transphobic, guess we know what side each is on though...and to everyone who said yes you can care about global warming and child poverty and ahem... women's rights????? all at the same time, that' right, except, in this instance, doesn't seem OP cares about other people much, but mainly about her own discomfort at people not conforming to gender stereotypes while serving her coffee and how very rude is that, too! ; )

I bet she was petrified fearing the barista would leap over the counter and begin molesting her in broad daylight. And no, I will not check myself, I have been assaulted TWICE, as I mentioned earlier, and both times were by stereotypical men. I lay the blame for those assaults squarely at the door of toxic masculinity and its norms of women being the property of men and men having to behave in certain macho ways (and certainly not wear tights, ever! in fact, those men would likely be right there with the OP, wanting to witch hunt that barista..) And of course I don't know the OP at all, but she hasn't mentioned any trauma from her past of being molested by a trans person, or any person at all, in fact.

And since so many of you are so keen on statistics, then why don't you look up what gender the majority of people who assault women identify as? I may of course be mistaken, but I THINK you will find most people who assault women are, in fact, male identifying men.

I am not saying some trans women do not assault women (and men) obviously that does happen, but to suggest that is a widespread problem is incorrect transphobic fear mongering and diverting the focus from the real enemy of women's rights: patriarchy and stereotypical gender roles, not baristas in tights.

goldfish, I skimmed your wibble & you seem to have misunderstood the OP, me, the reference to Ricky Gervais, your own writings & the whole point of the thread.

Suffice it to say I will not be replying to you beyond this.

Not a trans person in tights. Probably the least likely to be dangerous to women.

Not accurate. According to MoJ statistics the number of transwomen incarcerated for sex crimes is higher than the average proportion of males. It seems that TWs are more likely to commit sexual crimes than the average man.

I’m not saying it isn’t a bit annoying to dress like that.

It’s not annoying. OP wasn’t annoyed, she had a strong and perfectly understandable reaction based on evolutionary biology. Stop minimising this, please. Dressing in such a way as to show your genitalia in a café is a transgressive act — transgressive because the social contract here in the UK is that in cafes men and women don’t dress in a way that draws attention to genitalia. It’s different on the beach, in clubs or at the ballet.

So they're wearing tight trousers. Erm, okay.

They’re wearing tight leggings and displaying their genitalia at the kind of height where a customer would get an eyeful, while also telling the world they are a woman via their badge, make-up etc. Shades of suck-my-girl-dick, surely?

You should try going to Germany to do a bit of mixed gender sauna, you’d maybe develop a more chill attitude to body parts then.

It’s sex, not gender. And please stop calling other women prudes/ naive/ pearl-clutchers, Cool Girl. It’s absolutely not acceptable to tell other women they just need to reset their boundaries to suit yours. You sound like a gaslighting man.

to be genuine: I’d also not love seeing that,

Every time I see someone declare themselves to be genuine, or say ‘I’m going to be honest with you’ and similar I assume they’re not. Because otherwise they wouldn’t feel the need to say it.

I agree with this actually. As long as the daft bloke in a women's outfit isn't hurting anyone, let him crack on. We used to laugh about stuff like this, not be frightened at it. The outrage needs to be at male inmates in womens prisons, male athletes on women sports teams etc. Gaslighting in court where women are forced to complain about being raped by a woman, not man. Appropriation is also something to be outraged by, a trans woman leading a women's refuge or representing women.
The barista looked a plonker, no doubt, but no is traumatised by seeing the outline of a dick (don't go to the ballet or an 80s rock concert if you don't agree - does anyone remember David Bowie in Labyrinth btw - I couldn't take my eyes off the screen 😳)

I will never get the 'transwomen are not the problem. It's MEN! MEN are the problem you stupid women transphobes! Not men in dresses no no no, just MEN!'

I despair.

What would the shop’s policy be with regards an ordinary male dressing in skintight leggings with tackle on show? Would they consider that acceptable, sexual harassment perhaps or maybe just inappropriate.

I think this should be the basis of your complaint. No one should be wearing leggings that show their cock and balls. I think they would uphold a complaint for this against a regular male member of staff.

I should say, not every “regular” male member of staff but every other male member of staff.

@Goldfishonabike so do you therefore think it’s ok for all male staff from now on at Nero or Costa to wear skinny leggings/tights with short tops and cock and balls on display?
I don’t think so. I think you mean only certain people don’t you?

Like someone said, don’t go to the ballet, look at professional bicyclists or even rowers then. Transphobes like you have an expiration date, and the younger generations will look back and laugh and cry, so enjoy your heyday while you have it.

If I went to the ballet, where ballet dancers wear leggings, I wouldn't be surprised to see men in leggings. If I went to view sports, where men wear Lycra, I wouldn't be surprised to see men in tight Lycra.

Guess where I would be surprised (and pissed off) to see men (regardless of how they identify) serving me coffee/food with their outlined tackle in full show - fucking Costa. And any other public place where this would be highly inappropriate. I couldn't give a fuck how they identified.

What part of 'inappropriate' are you not getting? Or are you just wanting to fall over yourself with accusations of transphobia.

Try harder!

Agree with everything you said.

I also find it hard to believe that they weren't wearing an apron with their hair pulled back.

It's a froth-inducer.