Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

Another explanation for younger people being

"overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment"

is that you learn stuff as you get older.

I know people who believe themselves to be progressive and open minded LOVE the idea is that those of us who think more critically are just old stuffy bigots but in my experience it's just an ability to understand things fully and appreciate consequences properly.

Another explanation for younger people being

"overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment"

is that you learn stuff as you get older.

I know people who believe themselves to be progressive and open minded LOVE the idea is that those of us who think more critically are just old stuffy bigots but in my experience it's just an ability to understand things fully and appreciate consequences properly.

Another explanation for younger people being

"overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment"

is that you learn stuff as you get older.

I know people who believe themselves to be progressive and open minded LOVE the idea is that those of us who think more critically are just old stuffy bigots but in my experience it's just an ability to understand things fully and appreciate consequences properly.

I'm early 30s so a millennial. Trans people don't have any less 'rights' than anyone else according to the law.

I don't care if someone wants to live their life as a woman, but I do care when new legislation and identity politics negatively affect biological women and our rights. I care when children are being indoctrinated and endangered.

Examples: transsexuals in women's changing rooms, public toilets, drag queen story time, biological men competing in women's sports, rapists identifying as a woman to avoid male prison, Scotland making it illegal to mis gender someone, being called a cis woman, painting rainbows in public spaces such as stairs and zebra crossings making them unavoidable, transitioning children through drugs and surgery, transwomen making videos about how they have PMS, drug induced lactation so biological men can breastfeed babies.

This is all extremely unethical and a massive step back for women.

If you’re a man who wants to wear a dress fill your boots. Wear what you like. You’re not a woman though

Exactly! Be more Kurt Cobain. Loved a dress, but never professed to be a woman.

When people say trans rights, what they mean is the right for trans people to exist without fear of being harassed, from violence or discrimination.
Its about being able to live their lives with the same respect as afforded to others.

It doesnt mean legal rights.

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area

Regret to inform you that in this case you do not count as supporting trans rights, you're an old bigot like the rest of us.

None of us think trans people are scum. The debate about trans rights is precisely around these types of situations: toilet, puberty blockers, athletes.

@DetOliviaBenson I love the term general realist - will be using that from now on!!

I do think that there is an absolute time bomb going to explode of trans women with prostate cancer who haven't been called for screening because they've changed their sex marker in the NHS to woman. I know so many men who've been diagnosed with prostate cancer which was found reasonably early due to the regular screening programme.

And absolutely no one here would disagree with that

however I would point out that women are regularly harrassed, assaulted, belittled, and treated with so little respect that they’re expected to swallow the idea that a man can be a woman just by saying so

so who are these ppl living their lives having all this respect afforded to them because it isn’t women!

.

Glitch in the matrix

Yet women are expected to accept fear of violence by accommodating biological men in our private spaces? Why should their 'rights' supersede ours.
Appease a minority at the expense and safety of the majority.

Lets not pretend that any pervert or predator has effectively been handed a golden ticket to invade women's spaces without challenge.

I only know one person who is openly transphobic, by which I mean does not accept trans men and women are really men and women.

Why does that mean they don't like trans people ? I don't believe men and women can change sex, that doesn't mean I dislike people who claim to be trans men or trans women.

@valensiwalensi can you explain how those rights can exist alongside women's right to privacy and dignity in single sex spaces?

Those are legal rights. They're basic human rights. Bit pointless campaigning for rights everyone already has, no?

' openly transphobic, by which I mean does not accept trans men and women are really men and women'

But I thought we were told most people know that trans people don't really change sex?

The exist thing bothers me. No one is saying trans people don't exist are they? Or is saying 'I don't believe in gender ideology' perceived as saying their trans identity doesn't exist?

No one is saying 'women just want to exist'. I find it weird.

I assume they mean that "man" and "woman" are identity based words rather than sex based words.

And that it is the failure to believe this which is transphobic, as opposed to any particular treatment of trans people.

It is quite simple. Trans identified men’s rights are fine, as long as they don’t negatively impact biological women’s and children’s rights. At the point they do, they are not fine. So trans identified men are not acceptable in women’s sports, women’s prisons, women’s and children’s safe spaces and so on. Other than that, go for it. Live and let live as long as one is not negatively affecting others.

When people say trans rights, what they mean is the right for trans people to exist without fear of being harassed, from violence or discrimination.
Its about being able to live their lives with the same respect as afforded to others.

It doesnt mean legal rights.

You're aware that protection from harassment, violence and discrimination are legal rights, yes?

The same protections apply to trans people as to everyone else. In fact, in hate crimes against trans people are now specifically covered under their new law, but ones against women based on their sex are not.

Yeah, that argument is a real failure of logic.

Of course trans people exist. If they didn't exist, no one would care what toilets they are using or what sports they are competing in. Nobody is suggesting that they don't exist. We are saying that they haven't changed sex.

Trans activists are claiming that people are denying trans people's right to exist, when we acknowledge that they exist and want to have clear terminology to describe them which recognises both their biological sex and their gender identity. Meanwhile, trans activists deny that female people are a group which can be objectively defined or which we need a word for. So who is denying the existence of whom?

The only difference is that women will continue to exist whether there is a word for us or not. We would continue to exist even if the entire human population lost its capacity for oral and written language overnight. Humans would still be roughly evenly divided into those with the potential to bear, and those with the potential to beget, human offspring. No human, or indeed any other mammal, will ever transition from one of those two groups to the other.

Whereas being transgender is a social construct. Without the social construct of gender, trans people wouldn't cease to exist (they would still exist and they would still be either male or female) but being trans as a concept would cease to exist.

Perhaps this is why they are so sensitive about people denying their existence. Because their existence is actually quite fragile.

Do we also make the same distinction for other marginalised groups?