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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Older generations show resistance to trans rights

1000 replies

Inauthentic · 07/04/2024 22:36

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

OP posts:
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valensiwalensi · 08/04/2024 13:04

CaptainWarbeck · 08/04/2024 12:45

@valensiwalensi can you explain how those rights can exist alongside women's right to privacy and dignity in single sex spaces?

Come on, that's too easy a question.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 08/04/2024 13:05

CurlewKate · 08/04/2024 10:21

@PurpleSparkledPixie My bafflement was rhetorical!

Ooops, I know. I was just re emphasising your point for those at the back. I forgot to state that. Sorry Blush

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 08/04/2024 13:06

I assume they mean that "man" and "woman" are identity based words rather than sex based words.

And this is why it all makes no sense. "You are a transphobe if you say a transwoman is not a woman, because what I mean by 'woman' is 'someone who feels like a woman'. Yes obviously a transwoman isn't biologically female. But 'woman' is a gender, not a sex." Nope.

Sex = male/female
Gender = bunch of outdated sex-based stereotypes which were slowly on the way out until fabulously progressive TRAs decided they are actually the proper way of categorising humans

valensiwalensi · 08/04/2024 13:06

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 12:43

And absolutely no one here would disagree with that

however I would point out that women are regularly harrassed, assaulted, belittled, and treated with so little respect that they’re expected to swallow the idea that a man can be a woman just by saying so

so who are these ppl living their lives having all this respect afforded to them because it isn’t women!

White men!

valensiwalensi · 08/04/2024 13:07

Tallula7 · 08/04/2024 12:43

Yet women are expected to accept fear of violence by accommodating biological men in our private spaces? Why should their 'rights' supersede ours.
Appease a minority at the expense and safety of the majority.

Lets not pretend that any pervert or predator has effectively been handed a golden ticket to invade women's spaces without challenge.

Edited

I quite agree.

anonhop · 08/04/2024 13:49

In early 20s & most ppl I know don't agree with the trans stuff but don't want to call it out either. If pushed, everyone I know would be gender critical I think! + I mix in fairly MC London circles.
As for being ok with puberty blockers/the kids stuff, that is wild to me!!

CurlewKate · 08/04/2024 13:53

My understanding was that the"right to exist" was dependent on TWAW. Because if TW aren't actually W, then they cease to exist as a discrete category and are a subcategory of men.

Zodfa · 08/04/2024 13:58

"Grown up in a supportive environment"? Is my millennial experience atypical, because at my school being openly gay put you at risk of being beaten up and being openly transsexual was unthinkable?

Prelapsarianhag · 08/04/2024 14:08

71 and hugely trans positive. No time for all this Gender Critical hate - its a miserable ideology that props up the Patriarchy.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/04/2024 14:09

Prelapsarianhag · 08/04/2024 14:08

71 and hugely trans positive. No time for all this Gender Critical hate - its a miserable ideology that props up the Patriarchy.

I find these kinds of responses really tiresome.

Please show your working.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 08/04/2024 14:09

its a miserable ideology that props up the Patriarchy.

The irony! 😂

Anonymous2025 · 08/04/2024 14:09

I am around your age and agree . I think it’s because we forgive the older generation to much , they can get away with almost every kind of bigotry and not being called on it . A few years ago a lady in her 60s 70 s thre a massive fit at our Gap surgery because she specifically wanted a British doctor , she was booked a emergency appointment and the doctor in question was if Asian origins , I think Indian ( he was a brilliant doctor and I have used him several times ) . Instead of refusing service they pulled her aside and had another go seeing her. That’s the sort of atitude that is not allowed to any other generation . Anither example a neighbour I haven’t seen for a while ( I moved country within the U.K. a few years ago due to racism and xenophobia after Brexit ) recently saw my youngest and commented on how white she was ( my partner is mixed race ) , her exact words where “ oh she is beautiful , so nice she looks so much like you and so fair skinned “ .
the older generation can get away with murder because they are old 🤷🏻‍♀️.

ArabellaScott · 08/04/2024 14:11

Anonymous2025 · 08/04/2024 14:09

I am around your age and agree . I think it’s because we forgive the older generation to much , they can get away with almost every kind of bigotry and not being called on it . A few years ago a lady in her 60s 70 s thre a massive fit at our Gap surgery because she specifically wanted a British doctor , she was booked a emergency appointment and the doctor in question was if Asian origins , I think Indian ( he was a brilliant doctor and I have used him several times ) . Instead of refusing service they pulled her aside and had another go seeing her. That’s the sort of atitude that is not allowed to any other generation . Anither example a neighbour I haven’t seen for a while ( I moved country within the U.K. a few years ago due to racism and xenophobia after Brexit ) recently saw my youngest and commented on how white she was ( my partner is mixed race ) , her exact words where “ oh she is beautiful , so nice she looks so much like you and so fair skinned “ .
the older generation can get away with murder because they are old 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Edited

Ageism is the last acceptable bigotry, amIrite

borntobequiet · 08/04/2024 14:12

the older generation can get away with murder because they are old

Ooh you missed out the word literally.

GatherlyGal · 08/04/2024 14:12

Agree @ArabellaScott .

GatherlyGal · 08/04/2024 14:12

Agree @ArabellaScott .

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2024 14:12

ForCoralFox · 08/04/2024 08:01

You are joking about suicide. You are really showing who you are here.

Erm. Excuse me. It's transactivists who KEEP using suicide as a threat against Samaritans Guidance.

You are right. It's appalling.

Helleofabore · 08/04/2024 14:12

I think anyone who suggests that understanding that there are times when sex needs to be prioritised above gender is propping up the Patriarchy fails to understand the misogyny behind declaring that a male person's philosophical belief takes precedence over a female person's material needs.

It is remarkable to see comments such as "No time for all this Gender Critical hate - its a miserable ideology that props up the Patriarchy" posted on a feminist board. That is just telling us that some people prioritise male people.

ArabellaScott · 08/04/2024 14:14

Prelapsarianhag · 08/04/2024 14:08

71 and hugely trans positive. No time for all this Gender Critical hate - its a miserable ideology that props up the Patriarchy.

How is being critical of stereotypes 'hate'?

You do understand what the phrase 'gender critical' means, yes?

Helleofabore · 08/04/2024 14:14

Anonymous2025 · 08/04/2024 14:09

I am around your age and agree . I think it’s because we forgive the older generation to much , they can get away with almost every kind of bigotry and not being called on it . A few years ago a lady in her 60s 70 s thre a massive fit at our Gap surgery because she specifically wanted a British doctor , she was booked a emergency appointment and the doctor in question was if Asian origins , I think Indian ( he was a brilliant doctor and I have used him several times ) . Instead of refusing service they pulled her aside and had another go seeing her. That’s the sort of atitude that is not allowed to any other generation . Anither example a neighbour I haven’t seen for a while ( I moved country within the U.K. a few years ago due to racism and xenophobia after Brexit ) recently saw my youngest and commented on how white she was ( my partner is mixed race ) , her exact words where “ oh she is beautiful , so nice she looks so much like you and so fair skinned “ .
the older generation can get away with murder because they are old 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Edited

Wowsers. Can you fit anymore offensive trope into one post?

fedupandstuck · 08/04/2024 14:14

@Prelapsarianhag I would be very keen to understand your view that being gender critical supports patriarchy, as it's so opposite to how I view being critical of gender that I cannot imagine what the reasoning would be.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/04/2024 14:15

ArabellaScott · 08/04/2024 14:14

How is being critical of stereotypes 'hate'?

You do understand what the phrase 'gender critical' means, yes?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think they have even the slightest comprehension of what gender critical means.

forgotmyusername1 · 08/04/2024 14:15

ChateauMargaux · 07/04/2024 23:39

I don't think men should compete in female sports.

I think the existing evidence on puberty blockers should preclude them from being used until it can be shown that the know risks are outweighed by the clearly demonstrated bemefits, when compared with other approaches. We are a long way from this.

Do you believe humans can change sex?

If sex and gender are different things, why do you think sex should replace gender? Is there not room for both?

Why do you think sex or gender should be recorded on passports, birth certificates, school registers, police records?

Do you think males and females should be treated equally?

Do you think that women identify into lower paid jobs, a lesser share of power, share of voice and share of wealth in the world?

Do you believe it is possible for the global female population to identify out of relative poverty, of being victims of sexual violence, out of an unequal representation in government, in the higher levels of companies, in the legal and economic structures of the countries they live in and into equal share of global wealth? Do you believe that such equality should be an ideal that humamkind should strive towards or do you believe that women and girls should accept these structural inequalities which fall largely along the male / female divide? If there were no recording / reporting of sex, do you believe the reality would be different?

Do you think that females who show no interest in make up, dresses or traditional female pursuits or careers are trans and if not, why are we telling young girls and young boys that this might be the case?

Why do you think toilets / prisons / changing rooms are segregated by sex? Why do you think females feel vulnerable in a state of undress in the presence of males, even if that individual has never and will never attach them? Should they have to live with those feelings of vulnerability when segregation by sex makes them feel safe?

I think it is interesting that women cannot self identify into inheriting a peerage for first born son but the man gets to keep his peerage if he identifies as a woman. Gender clearly not more important than sex when it comes to titles

StarlightLime · 08/04/2024 14:16

ArabellaScott · 08/04/2024 14:14

How is being critical of stereotypes 'hate'?

You do understand what the phrase 'gender critical' means, yes?

Somehow, I suspect not.

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