More idiocy from Wales

[Chersfrozenface]

Hot on the heels on New Zealand, Wales enters the lists.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68731593

Some selected paragraphs.

"Europe's biggest annual LGBTQ+ multi-sports event will be held in Cardiff in 2027.

The Welsh capital will be the first UK city to host the EuroGames."

"The EuroGames tournament is governed by the European Gay and Lesbian Sport Federation and is a "sports for all" event, meaning it is open to everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, age and skill level.

"Charlotte Galloway, chair of Cardiff Dragons, Wales' first mixed gender LGBTQ+ football club, said all athletes can compete as their "authentic selves".

"People are allowed to identify and play in their authentic gender," she said.

"So that means that trans women can play in the women's category and trans men can play in the men's category - I think it's really important that we're able to do this because there's no other competition that's this big in Europe that allows gender non-conforming people, trans people and non-binary people to compete this way."

Still, it's clear what exactly this is.

And all those women who are fiiiiine with changing and competing with men can participate, knowing what the terms are. After all, it's not the winning that's important, it's the taking part.

How are the contestants getting to Cardiff? Road and train links are dire and the airport is no better. All these things should be sorted for those of us who live in Wales before hosting events like this.

It started off as, and its official name still is, the European Gay and Lesbian Multi-Sports Championships, a
sports-for-all event, open for participation irrespective of sex, age, sexual identity or physical ability.

The gender bit got added on later.

Presumably in the same way huge numbers of people got there for the football matches at the 2012 Olympic games or the Six Nations tournament every year, or any other event at the Millennium Stadium.

The games normally have fewer than 3,000 participants over a weekend, so not as bad as big sporting or music events at the Principality Stadium.

This is from this website linked to below:

The idea of organizing EuroGames officially called the European Gay and Lesbian Multi-Sports Championships was born after the second Gay Games in San Francisco 1986. The EuroGames started on a small scale. The basic idea was to support gay and lesbian athletes in their coming out, increase the awareness of gay and lesbian sport in the greater public and to do networking between gay and lesbian sports clubs in Europe. The first EuroGames took place in The Hague in 1992. The Annual General Assembly of the EGLSF decides which bidding club or city is going to organize the EuroGames, and in order to make it possible for smaller cities to arrange such games, EuroGames are organised as either "big" or “small”, i.e. the number of sports offered is limited (usually alternates).

So yeah - gay and lesbian games in origin. Not LGBTIQ.

https://www.eglsf.info/eurogames/about-eurogames/history/

The media, especially the BBC, will make a big thing of it - ooh, look, sparkly rainbows, isn't it wonderful!

Just the announcement of the decision to award it to Cardiff was on the main page of the BBC News website, UK section.

@Freysimo well, its a 2-3 day event with a couple of thousand participants. How does Cardiff cope with a six nations match with 74,000 attendees? Events far bigger than this one happen without you even noticing.

I agree that it's more blurring the lines. Men and women are sex based. There's 90 odd genders and so no need to split them all to make things fair and competitive.

No need to reinforce stereotypes of male/ female gender either. If it's a let transgender compete surely all the trans men (females to male) competitors will be, by definition women?

Oh, we notice. Roads closed and clogged, bus routes diverted, bus stops moved out of the city centre, getting to and from work a nightmare.

But this is likely to cause less inconvenience than a gig or show at the Utilita, used to be CIA, Arena, especially as the events are likely to be dotted around in venues like cycling and athletics tracks, swimming pools etc.

I've heard from rugby fans that when the rugby is on, sometime the French fans come to Cardiff to watch the games on TV in Cardiff bars. The city centre is quite small by comparison to sprawling connurbations. There's an amazing number of bars catering to all sorts of needs, an incredible choice of places to eat, chippey alley is particularly famous, all very densely packed in to a small area easy to get around. The main train station, and millenium stadium are practically right next to all the bars and food shops. It's very easy to get to whatever you want, and it's all very close together. It's easy for the French to get to Cardiff, and everything you need is all together. Cardiff city centre is a good place for fans of events to have a good time. We even park up the ambulances at the start of the evening on the edge of the bar/food area ready for all the customers.

I see. So if female people agree to be discriminated against, that is ok and the events should be applauded and called inclusive and considered positive.

Good to know.

“They consented” and of course, there was nothing coercive about the environment to prevent female people from complaining at all.

So, all categories will be won by men.

Same old story.

Any woman taking part in this event knows what she's getting into. People do daft things, though.

Other people should be free to say that what they're doing is idiotic, and not to be emulated by anyone with any grasp on reality or sense of fairness.

Should the event be applauded? No, though how you stop the cheerleaders doing just that, I'm not sure. But people should be free to point out that it is a nonsense.

And Cher, it needs to be stated very clearly that female athletes are in fear of complaining for many reasons. So, no. Hailing this event as any kind of positive because ‘female competitors know what they are getting into’ is denying the reality of the situation and using ‘they know’ is very dismissive.

@Helleofabore in this case I don't think that is as true as in mainstream sporting competitions.

EuroGames is for a very specific demographic. I doubt any serious athlete would compete - the results don't count towards any rankings, the website is clear on that.

And as for social pressure from a woman's in-group, she might get kudos for taking part, but I doubt whether she'd be criticised for not doing so, it's pretty niche, it's not a vital form of virtue signalling.

They’ll be giving away the tickets, I think

I agree. I've always said that those who identify as trans should fight for their own spaces and events. This seems a good example of people doing that. I hope everyone who takes part enjoys themselves.

Hilariously, on the website of this year's games in Vienna, it says "..one of the goals of EuroGames Vienna 2024 is to increase the number of women and TIN (Trans-, Inter- and Non-binary) athletes.."

Yeah, good luck increasing the number of women athletes when they know they'll be beaten by the female-identifying male competitors. Apart from the ideologically driven "allies", obviously.

I don’t agree though Cher.

we already know that lesbians are not speaking out. And just because you have chosen to describe it as an unimportant, social event doesn’t make it unimportant to all. Or unimportant to offer fairness for female people. After all, the male people are hardly going to lose podium positions or be harmed if a female competes in the male category.

Why should ANY event such as this be allowed to discriminate against female people? Knowingly or unknowingly, it is discrimination to female people. If a category has been set for female people under the guise ‘woman’, it is separated for the purpose of fairness. And the current set up is therefore not fit for purpose. Regardless of importance in others eyes.

If this event didn’t bother having a separate categories at all, that is a different story. As this does have a separated event, writing it off as ‘just social’ or ‘not important’ is dismissive of the discrimination that is clear here. And just because ‘some’ of the participants may get kudos for their inclusivity, doesn’t make it any better in my eyes. It is just ignoring those who cannot speak up.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen I don't think it's really a spectator thing. There's no mention of spectator tickets or anything like that for this year's event. It's a 3 day sporting festival that the participants clearly feel is worth the €110 entry fee.

It's really not aimed at serious athletes - the archery competition page for example helpfully explains that you can hire a bow for €25.

It is like saying that this particular group of female people who want to compete at this level should just suck up the discrimination because they are specifically in this community.

I find this very problematic the more I look at it. Why should female people in the LGBTQ+ community deserve to such unfairness even their grass roots competition .

Lesbians, gay men and bisexuals, pansexuals, asexuals etc etc can still compete (fairly) in all the sex segregated sports outside of this event (because sexuality is irrelevant when it comes to physical capacity). They (LGB etc) aren't having anything removed (except an entry fee!) by choosing to join this specific competition that supports people that ARE excluded from sex segregated sports and their allies.

I'm GC but I still want all people to be able to have access to sports and services and think 3rd spaces is the best option.

The same Cardiff that has a massive student population, hosts huge stadium events, sports events and has university accommodation sitting empty over the summer?? I'm sure they can handle an event of this size!

Michael, rather than Martin. I got those two mixed up for years - I remember being bemused as to why an American would be staging a Passion Play in Port Talbot!

Thanks for the correction @NImumconfused. I've put my brain back in gear now. 😊