More idiocy from Wales

[Chersfrozenface]

Hot on the heels on New Zealand, Wales enters the lists.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68731593

Some selected paragraphs.

"Europe's biggest annual LGBTQ+ multi-sports event will be held in Cardiff in 2027.

The Welsh capital will be the first UK city to host the EuroGames."

"The EuroGames tournament is governed by the European Gay and Lesbian Sport Federation and is a "sports for all" event, meaning it is open to everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, age and skill level.

"Charlotte Galloway, chair of Cardiff Dragons, Wales' first mixed gender LGBTQ+ football club, said all athletes can compete as their "authentic selves".

"People are allowed to identify and play in their authentic gender," she said.

"So that means that trans women can play in the women's category and trans men can play in the men's category - I think it's really important that we're able to do this because there's no other competition that's this big in Europe that allows gender non-conforming people, trans people and non-binary people to compete this way."

Still, it's clear what exactly this is.

And all those women who are fiiiiine with changing and competing with men can participate, knowing what the terms are. After all, it's not the winning that's important, it's the taking part.

Let them get on with it. Games rather than a competition I suppose. Obviously women will have a disadvantage if it is all mixed sex. Definitely a case of not the winning but the taking part for women. I wonder how many genuine lesbians will be there? Or just people who claim to be?

I didn't know about Martin Sheen and the Homeless Games. What a generous and supportive gesture.

“This is not fair. Every single category will be dominated by men.”

Welcome to the wonderful world of gender identity. Men win everything.

The more I think about it, the more it seems a bit counterproductive and embittered to want to object to this event. Essentially it is a bit of fun that allows trans-identified people to participate in events that are shaped around self-expression rather than fair competition.

"So that means that trans women can play in the women's category and trans men can play in the men's category - I think it's really important that we're able to do this because there's no other competition that's this big in Europe that allows gender non-conforming people, trans people and non-binary people to compete this way."

So what category do non-binary people compete in?

It's completely stupid, as usual. If biological sex doesn't matter, then make every single competition open to everyone.

@GoodOldEmmaNess I agree. It's basically the TRA games. Why shouldn't they be permitted to organise their own games?

So what category do non-binary people compete in?

At least in the sports I've looked at, there are three categories - male identifying, female identifying and non-binary.

If it’s pay-to-play, and every participant knows what they’re getting into then I don’t have a problem. But I do hope there isn’t sycophantic press coverage of the ‘winners’

This seems fine to me. It's the sporting equivalent of the 'third space' i.e. somewhere people who believe in GI can do their thing without impacting on others.

Those who enter these games will be people who believe TWAW and TMAM. What's a likely outcome is that the biological males will dominate all the categories regardless of their GI.

Who knows, if that happens maybe a few of them will have the fog cleared from their eyes.

If it's not being funded by public money, that does make a difference.

However, it will not make male athletes any less likely to try to muscle into women's events, IMO. Validation is addictive.

It will also give currency to the idea that identities are a legitimate basis for categorisation in sport.

I don't think it's an awful idea as long as everyone knows what's happening and there's no compulsion to participate.

My objection is to call it an LGBT event though because it's not really. It's a T Event open to allies. Only women can be lesbians and suggesting this is an LGBT event when many lesbians will self exclude effectively is propaganda to say 'look there's no homophobia or sexism here cos the lesbians approve'.

Call it a Trans-Inclusive Event Open To All and I'm ok with it.

I've been talked round to the majority view.
But it makes me so sad that women accept this.

Agree with @RedToothBrush that it’s Trans inclusive rather than LGBT+, but other than that it seems like a great idea and I hope it goes well.
transparency and choice are the important issues for me, and actually this event encompasses both.

Why female-identifying and not "women"? Female is a sex, describing the physical body - are they saying there is something female about women?

The conflation of sex and gender sounds transphobic to me.

Possibly something lost in translation? In some languages (e.g. French) there aren't separate words for female and woman. Either that or deliberate conflation in an attempt to change the meaning of the word "female". I'm always told that the meaning of words change whenever I point out that its a bit racist to use "woke" as derogatory term so that should be ok right?

I agree. It's one thing to object to TW in women's events at things like the Olympics, it's quite another to complain about TW and allies starting their own event.

Let them crack on IMO, and I hope they have a fantastic event.

As long as the taxpayers of Cardiff and Wales don't have to contribute money, OK. But I trust neither the city council nor Welsh Labour in this regard

As I said in my OP, at least everyone knows what the score is - these are competitions, but not in any way fair ones, because they're not based on actual biology.

Why not? Council funds are used to pay for a lot of things that don't directly benefit our own social groups. I for example am supremely unsporty but I don't object to councils funding sports teams / grounds / events. I don't see why LGBT specific sporting events should be excluded from council funding.

The only way I see this as fair is if there was a female only category as well. Otherwise it is direct discrimination. There is no way to frame this as being a positive thing just because it might mean that more mainstream events will be left alone or whatever the reasoning. It is an event where female people are actively discriminated against.

I don’t see any positives here unless it had a female only event for each sport where a ‘women only’ event was offered.

I believe this would fall under "proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim".

If women can exclude ("discriminate") against TW to preserve single sex spaces because of the above, then an LGBT event can discriminate against women to preserve the spirit of the event. Personally I think that's fair, as long as everyone is aware of the terms.

I don't think anyone will be going to this event not knowing what they are getting into. As others have pointed out you have to pay to play. No one is turning up by accident. If females want to go to an event where they know they will be competing against/sharing changing rooms with males, and they willingly consent to that, that's their choice.

My problem arises when males are forced on non consenting females.

Sounds great, an inclusive event for those who want to participate and for those who aren't able to compete in the teams/ events that they might wish too.

Having access to sport is good for physical and mental health and team sports especially. I have no issue with public money being used for this, trans people are part of society and we use public money for promoting sports to all kinds of groups who might otherwise face barriers. Of course teams / individuals with male bodied advantages are likely to dominate the podium, but no one is forcing anyone to take part.

Not sure how the event will specifically cater to the LGB athletes as sexuality doesn't affect athletic ability afaik, but I guess that teaming is necessary to ensure enough people participate to make the event work, a T/NB only event really wouldn't work!

There's no such thing as LGBT sport, for a start. You might as well have LGB Vegan sport, it would be as meaningful.

Public bodies have a duty to ensure a fair balance between protected characteristics. Women are losing out.

Sports bodies also have a duty to encourage disadvantaged groups to participate and to ensure that they can participate fairly. Men are not disadvantaged when it comes to sport. Women are.

So it would matter if this event was receiving public funding (which it isn't).

I don't care about the council funding things which are not for my personal benefit, that is not the issue here.

Not sure about that. It discriminates against Lesbians. To not discriminate it should just be one category.

Agree with this.

And I hope the winner's
podium photos are widely distributed.

Eh? Any woman (the genuine biological variety) surely won't want to take part for fear on injury? Thereby eclipsing women from sport?
So it's for men by men and everyone is fine with that because it's all out in the open?
So what about women, who would like to play alongside other women (again actual physical women)? How do their needs get met.
So tired of all this shit,💩.