More idiocy from Wales

[Chersfrozenface]

Hot on the heels on New Zealand, Wales enters the lists.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68731593

Some selected paragraphs.

"Europe's biggest annual LGBTQ+ multi-sports event will be held in Cardiff in 2027.

The Welsh capital will be the first UK city to host the EuroGames."

"The EuroGames tournament is governed by the European Gay and Lesbian Sport Federation and is a "sports for all" event, meaning it is open to everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, age and skill level.

"Charlotte Galloway, chair of Cardiff Dragons, Wales' first mixed gender LGBTQ+ football club, said all athletes can compete as their "authentic selves".

"People are allowed to identify and play in their authentic gender," she said.

"So that means that trans women can play in the women's category and trans men can play in the men's category - I think it's really important that we're able to do this because there's no other competition that's this big in Europe that allows gender non-conforming people, trans people and non-binary people to compete this way."

Still, it's clear what exactly this is.

And all those women who are fiiiiine with changing and competing with men can participate, knowing what the terms are. After all, it's not the winning that's important, it's the taking part.

I’m all for open categories in sport, as opposed to men muscling onto women’s teams, so i can’t see a problem with this. It’s very clear and those participating are happy about it

But they're not open categories. From the quote in the BBC story "So that means that trans women can play in the women's category..."

So long as the 'women's' category is explicitly billed as being a gender identity category then this could be a positive thing. A specialised event based on gender identity could be a good alternative to transwomen unjustly competing in women's sex-based categories.
Don't know the details of the event so I'm not sure whether it does anything to make itself accessible on a fair basis to lesbian women. But in principle, seems like it could be something positive.

Here are the categories for cycling at the EuroGames Vienna 2024, for instance.

Gender categories

• Female* identified
• Male* identified
• Non-binary

I wonder where the money for it will be coming from?

The homeless World Cup (football) was held in Cardiff a few years back and couldn’t cover its costs. Michael Sheen ended up covering the costs out of his own money, and then said in an interview I read somewhere that he’d needed to start taking well paid acting roles again as paying for it had wiped out his savings apparently.

It’s not like local councils are awash with spare cash to subsidise the “nice to have” stuff. And that situation won’t have improved three years from now.

This sounds like a good idea to me.

Organisers are creating an event for athletes whereby they are being explicit about the categories not being single sex.

I have no issue with groups of people creating their own events and making them as inclusive or exclusive as they choose.

The issue I have is groups of people demanding that events that have been set up with single sex categories change in order to accommodate their identities.

@GoodOldEmmaNess you say "I'm not sure whether it does anything to make itself accessible on a fair basis to lesbian women."

What is your definition of "fair"?

And Cardiff's council tax has just risen 6% (per Wales Online) and who knows how much it will rise by in the next couple of years.

The winners podium will be interesting

As long as everyone going in knows what they are getting into im good with this no-one is demanding anyone lie about what they see/know there are going to be transmen/transwomen don't compete unless you want to

Similarly interested in the funding source given current state of public services.

It does wind me up when people base things on gender identity and then state "male/female/NB/other".

Male and female are not gender identities.

So long as the 'women's' category is explicitly billed as being a gender identity category then this could be a positive thing.

Positive? It is just pointless. It's role play. There's no logical reason to split sports by gender, so the split is existing just for role playing purposes.

But I guess role playing events are fine - role players can do sports too.

But it's just inevitable that sports events within this particular role play event will be inevitably unfair, as the role play precludes the sex separation that sports require for fairness. But if role players want to sign up for the role play and conduct unfair sports within the rules of their role play it's up to them.

Just don't try to force the role play on people who want to play sports fairly.

It would be interesting reporting on this. Who enters and the wins by sex.

This is not fair. Every single category will be dominated by men. There is nowhere for women to shine. Direct sex discrimination. Also in contravention of women's human rights to participate equally in sport.
This had better not be paid for out of the public purse.

And what a kind and generous act by Michael Sheen to cover the cost of the homeless games. Great actor, lovely human being.

Forgive me for being baffled at the point of this. Will be interested to see how it works out...🤷🤔

@Chersfrozenface Well, fairness in sport involves keeping men out of women's sex-based categories. If you have a competition that replaces sex categories with 'gender identity' categories, women will be disadvantaged. My instinct is to doubt that the organisers have done anything to mitigate that, but in principle there are solutions. Eg you could have an event that included a mosaic of sex-based and gender identity based competitions.
As usual, a difficulty here is the teaming of LGB with T. However, some LGB people are happy with this teaming and I guess would participate on the basis of its opportunities for'authenticity' rather than on the basis of fair competition.

BellaAmorosa · Today 09:07

This is not fair. Every single category will be dominated by men.

Yes, it's obvious that that will be the case.

@Biscofffan
I imagine the point is validation. Sadly.
But on a happier note...I like Biscoff, too. 😋

That's a good point. It's just another example of language creep and blurring definitions. How long before "male and female have ALWAYS been gender based! You're obsessed with sex" is parroted as fact?

It will be glorious sunlight!

I'll wait for the entry lists before I really get opinionated.....we all know the ladies who will want to run in tutus, full faces of make up and blue wigs flying free in the wind will throw tantrums if they have to compete against the other ladies of their ilk.

I agree with quite a few of the posts on here.
Better they are creating their own space than appropriating existing spaces where some existing participants don't want to participate under the new regime.
If this attracts and keeps busy people who might otherwise be causing problems for other people then I'm all for it. Let the be kind crowd get involved and do the catering for the needs of the participants themselves instead of insisting all the time that we cater to those needs. I'll apprecaite the break.

On role playing. Yes, why bother even having men's and women's categories if anyone can enter either? It seems non sensical, playing by two opposing sets of rules at the same time, but if it keeps them happy and busy go for it. Personally I think they might as well get creative with categories, meat eaters vs veggies and vegans could be far more fun. Leather dog mask wearers vs furry fox suit wearers.

On men winning everything it says any age & skill level. I think this will be one of those places where everyone gets a medal. I suspect its more of a social hookup meet where you can find like minded new people to bump uglies and exchange exciting new pronouns with.

I'm all for it.

Re my earlier post saying "So long as the 'women's' category is explicitly billed as being a gender identity category then this could be a positive thing", Iof course I agree with others that 'gender identity' is a pointless category in sport. I also agree with the fury around the theft of the word 'woman' - which is a sex-based term.
However, we do have this situation where men are manipulating their way into women's sex-based sporting categories, and an event such as the one in the OP presents an alternative to that, in theory at least. And it could make some people happy, without disrupting events that exist for the purpose of fair competiton, rather than self-validation. Happiness is good, if it isn't achieved by bulldozing others

I can't get worked up by this. No-one is being forced to participate. These games don't matter in any way - as far as I know none of the events are qualifying or sanctioned by governing bodies so it's not like female participants will be disadvantaged in terms of rankings or qualifying points. Participants will be completely self-selected and no doubt fully signed up TRAs.

We need to focus on fairness in official sport: FIFA, WA, World Gymnastics, UCI etc. What some private company organising a pay-to-play sports tournament wants to do is their own business.

It's a pay-to-play event run by a commercial organisation. Same as Hirox or Ironman.