KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

You think using the word "groomers" is far right? WTF. How else do you describe men who groom children?

or is this an IFL vs PFL thing?

I'm very surprised that after 2 threads you are choosing to characterise my position as: It's interesting how you (Adam) pull out snippets of KJK's work (things she's said and things she's done), focus on the parts you see as fascistic, and therefore write her off as a fascist shill.

I never said that and I don't write her off. I've said she says far right things. She's financially backed by very right wing organisations. And I personally have found her pretty unpleasant in the past.

I'm intrigued why people on here insist there is no issue, its just a smear. Because what I've learnt in the past two threads is there are definitely things she says and does that can reasonably lead people to have concerns about her. Yet here we are, so many posts in and posts like this show you still can't admit why there could be a problem and prefer to misrepresent.

I don't think she's a fascist. I think she's playing the system for clicks, to get her message out and potentially for her own financial gain (although I'm less sure about that). An consequence of the "getting clicks" is she is spreading far right messages, as that is what the YouTube algorithm likes.

You and others may not care. I and others do care. We are all allowed our own opinions.

I think using the word "groomers" to apply to certain populations (who are not all groomers) is a far right thing.

It seems to be 2024's version of bigot. It now means something quite different to how it was actually conceived, in a certain sector of society.

Is someone taking Posie's credit for the successful Edinburgh event? x.com/ThePosieParker/status/1777089990263980409

wrong thread, sorry

@OldCrone

"CPAC a well-known and reputable organisation which is chaired by Warren Mundine AO, former Australian Labor Party national president"

There is also at least one other past ALP ex-leader who has spoken at one of their conferences.

Warren Mundine has switched his politics from Labor to Liberal (ie. from left to right).

It goes somewhat further than that, though. In the US, Roe vs Wade was overturned and suddenly women are without reproductive rights in many states. You might think it cannot happen to you, but they probably thought so, too. CPAC campaigns on the nuclear family, less working rights for women, lower education standards, state religion and all the constraints on women and girls that encompasses, and things like this the gem below - making it more difficult to report domestic violence and abuse. With CPAC in charge, women lose.

Groomers are,presumably, people who groom. They are usually, men, who prepare girls to be repeatedly sexually assaulted. If we are not to use that term, because someone has decided that it only applies to people of one religion, then we are, in effect, denying that the abuse happens.
Any normal descriptor, such as English, middle class, etc can be put in front of the word groomer. I fail to see why the abuse of those girls should be hidden to assuage some misguided fear of perceived racism.

I keep coming across that cartoon and it bothers me because it is so one sided and one dimensional. It's not true that the left has moved further left. Possibly it might appear that way if you came of age during New Labour and you just want to shine a light on the past decade, but I go way back - does no-one remember the Militant Tendency?

Since the Blair years, the left has gathered a strange collection of ideas to its bosom (for example queer theory/trans ideology), reactionary ideas that piggyback on the notion of fairness and force-team T into LGB rights. These ideas have nothing to do with what I understand socialism to be: keeping a society healthy and functioning through some form of redistribution of wealth and resources, a fundamental idea of treating people equally.

That was Corbyn's major fail for me: he absolutely didn't get that to have a successful multicultural society everyone - everyone, with no exceptions - must be treated equally. The SNP have gone even further down that divisive and insane road to nowhere - juggling with so many people's competing rights, forgetting that the most fundamental division, shared by all people of all colours, sexualities and classes everywhere, shared by every single person alive (born of a man's sperm and a woman's egg), is the competing needs of men and women. If you don't start building equality there you're going to get nowhere. [Oops. Derailed myself. 😮]

As for the right, with the Brexit campaign, Farage and UKIP (as Adam said the BNP became UKIP and latterly Reform), the Tories have tried repeatedly to woo the voters they lost to UKIP back into the fold, and that means they have moved further and further to the right to accommodate them. They are performatively cruel (looking at you in particular Suella). It's bizarre. It's scary. The right has definitely moved much further right, which is not reflected in that cartoon that people keep posting.

Sorry to bang on - I've posted this before - but the idea I keep coming back to is crystalised in Adam Curtis' Hypernormalisation.

s

I don't mean to suggest that Putin is destabilising us (though of course he is), I mean that as much as there's lobbying of our government by billionaire individuals and corporate interests, we ourselves are directly lobbied through social media and then again at arms length by the paid-for politicians posturing for us and wooing us.

In this context, when I look, for example, at the scenes in Edinburgh on Saturday, at TRAs drowning out women's voices, I'm angry. But I also think, these people are not our enemy. They're young, they're deluded. They should be demonstrating with rage because they have no secure housing, no secure jobs, no secure climate, world or worldview because they were born into late stage corporate cannibalism, reared with iphones in their hands. They are children of the state, children of the machine. They are deluded, brainwashed and confused. They have no context in the way that older people do.

I feel as sad for them as I feel angry. Anyway @DrSpartacular, I think the cartoon is one dimensional, and there's a lot more going on here.

😳The cartoon didn't copy. Here it is:
https://ugc-assets.mumsnet.com/images/202404/large-dBjL100fTNCYrhQN7kbQNTXpmgYIpkQjpmVSvyA7.jpg

Not posted bc to respond to Qs I've ended up writing really long outing replies and then I've seen the convo move on and thought I'd derail posting again

But here seems fine to jump in 😂

I could have done with having the word "grooming" in my vocabulary as a child, sounds like from OPs post downthread they could have too

Tbh professionals could have done with the word too

The blame was on children, not men and has never really been laid at professionals who allowed it to happen bc it's so much easier to say we didn't act for fear of racism with one type of abuser than admit that it wasn't hidden, wasn't secret, and wasn't alarming anyone in the first place until it was poc men

My home was notorious and was closed down over it but... like our "older boyfriends" were not treated like the problem... that was OUR risky behaviour and bad choices being made and they could sign ✍🏽 the bloody visitor log and shake hands with staff

You could not miss what happened in my city, it didn't need Sherlock to help the police ... they just didn't bother till they could say oh we found it hard in case they found us racist. Records have been lost, things are covered up (at least for myself, things that there is not possible for evidence to not exist bc LAC children are logged and reported on constantly... nobody seems able to find)
bc it's just a convenient lie for how perfectly accepted it was that some kids would go through it by a LOT of people and was happening for decades before it was even thought about as a problem with the men not the children

I object to it being reserved in peoples heads (the word grooming) to be combined with "gang" which idk "ring" sounds kinda happy like a circus... in comparison, like it's still not gonna trouble folk enough, bad apples amongst everyone sorta attitudes

and wish we would use the same language across the board reporting bc in 2012 I wasn't contributing to the narrative police wanted to excuse my city and I really do think some people can only see things when they look like their pictures in their heads associated with language used ...

It's not a Muslim thing to groom any more than it's a Christian thing to groom

Check any YouTube video on grooming scandals and read the comments... everyone wants to send folk home and apparently that's the problem and then it's fixed, when we had this problem, we have had it and had some parts of the UK as hotbeds for it for decades on decades ... pre immigration but it feels like a lovely comforting lie from my own experience to say "lessons learnt, we worried about racism" than admit ... for a long time we blamed children, promoted the concept they could consent, and did nothing about it anyway because we didn't not know, we knew and didn't want to do anything about it, clearly- for those troublemaker kids who bought it on themselves (that WAS the attitude!)

Why the fuck wouldn't men who are that way inclined find it easy?

I never once worried my "older boyfriend/s" were going to be in trouble... who was gonna report them? To who? The police who thought I could consent and prostitute myself? Even my social worker could have a friendly chat, as could the std clinic, as could key workers etc with them, Joe bloggs could see you with older men and not bat an eye to it ... it was normalised and whistleblowers only got listened to imo once there was a way to hack it on the back of other issues (racism, immigration)

And?

I was quoting another poster.

Is the Australian Liberal Party "far right"?

@OldCrone

And?

You brought Mundine being ALP into it as if it could be some kind of 'gotcha'. It really is nothing of the sort. Mundine has had a 360 spin in his politics; the general view is he is either being handsomely paid or senile. Happy to help out :-)

The Liberal Party itself isn't far-right, but certain factions within it are. The Australian CPAC division, that Mundine chairs, can be called far-right by Australian standards.

No I didn't. I was quoting another poster (who I think is Australian). I know almost nothing about Australian politics, although I was aware he had left the ALP as I googled his name after reading the post I quoted.

You think CPAC is 'far right', I think they look like the right wing end of various conservative parties. It all comes down to what your definition of 'far right' is. Is it right wing conservatives or is it fascism?

To me, far right means fascist, Nazi, BNP. Not mainstream conservatives, even the more right wing amongst them.

@OldCrone

No I didn't. I was quoting another poster (who I think is Australian). I know almost nothing about Australian politics, although I was aware he had left the ALP as I googled his name after reading the post I quoted.

I'm aware it was Hellofabore's post. You chose though to bold a sentence of the post - the part the says Mundine is a former ALP member. Mundine has little respect in Australia, particularly among his own indigenous people.

You think CPAC is 'far right', I think they look like the right wing end of various conservative parties. It all comes down to what your definition of 'far right' is. Is it right wing conservatives or is it fascism?

Yes, I do, and becoming more so all the time.

To me, far right means fascist, Nazi, BNP. Not mainstream conservatives, even the more right wing amongst them.

That's extreme far-right. Far-right extremism is an area we are teetering into at the moment.

Thank you. I wonder what provoked that. For someone who doesn't want to be a leader, she seems quite put out at not having her amazingness recognised!

And this reply to KJK saying

“In the last few years I’ve been interviewed by police, had death threats, my family targeted, been lied about and defamed, thought I’d lose my life…. I think that’s worth a morsel of respect.

It’s a little galling to be erased from my own event when talking about things that happened at it, as if there’s no event.”

Is why you are being accused of posting in bad faith.

You have continuously talked out of both sides of your mouth.

That's extreme far-right. Far-right extremism is an area we are teetering into at the moment

yes

but it didn’t used to be

I'm not (just) talking about that. I'm talking about it's increasing use as an insult to people who have politics someone doesn't like or even just says something someone disagrees with.

E.g

https://x.com/Paulishonlaffin/status/1776217565880013202

https://x.com/OutragePNW/status/1764810666152755293

It's being used as an insult/coercive pressure in much the same way "bigot" used to be. Noone wants to be called a groomer.

It’s infuriating when you work hard and receive no acknowledgment - surely most women have experienced similar?

Nothing to do with wanting to be a leader, everything to do with not being erased from your own project.

https://counterhate.com/blog/twitter-makes-millions-as-anti-lgbtq-grooming-narrative-jumps-119-under-elon-musk/

I am not going to stop using words just because some twat is now using it as an insult or the other way round!

boomer is a word to describe a certain generation just because one of my children used it once (and never again in my presence 😀) doesn’t mean I won’t use it in the correct context

its like that OK signal thing…👌

It's hard to know what has happened from that tweet to be honest! Yes most people have had that experience. It's quite unusual to broadcast it like that though. Reminds me of a "you OK hun?" style Facebook post.