Page 32 | KjK "insane rant" thread 2

AdamRyan · 2024-04-03T17:10:02+00:00

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant]] So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are: 1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne 2) KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant. Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 08:36

andforthatminuteablackbirdsang · 08/04/2024 02:23

I keep coming across that cartoon and it bothers me because it is so one sided and one dimensional. It's not true that the left has moved further left. Possibly it might appear that way if you came of age during New Labour and you just want to shine a light on the past decade, but I go way back - does no-one remember the Militant Tendency?

Since the Blair years, the left has gathered a strange collection of ideas to its bosom (for example queer theory/trans ideology), reactionary ideas that piggyback on the notion of fairness and force-team T into LGB rights. These ideas have nothing to do with what I understand socialism to be: keeping a society healthy and functioning through some form of redistribution of wealth and resources, a fundamental idea of treating people equally.

That was Corbyn's major fail for me: he absolutely didn't get that to have a successful multicultural society everyone - everyone, with no exceptions - must be treated equally. The SNP have gone even further down that divisive and insane road to nowhere - juggling with so many people's competing rights, forgetting that the most fundamental division, shared by all people of all colours, sexualities and classes everywhere, shared by every single person alive (born of a man's sperm and a woman's egg), is the competing needs of men and women. If you don't start building equality there you're going to get nowhere. [Oops. Derailed myself. 😮]

As for the right, with the Brexit campaign, Farage and UKIP (as Adam said the BNP became UKIP and latterly Reform), the Tories have tried repeatedly to woo the voters they lost to UKIP back into the fold, and that means they have moved further and further to the right to accommodate them. They are performatively cruel (looking at you in particular Suella). It's bizarre. It's scary. The right has definitely moved much further right, which is not reflected in that cartoon that people keep posting.

Sorry to bang on - I've posted this before - but the idea I keep coming back to is crystalised in Adam Curtis' Hypernormalisation.

s

I don't mean to suggest that Putin is destabilising us (though of course he is), I mean that as much as there's lobbying of our government by billionaire individuals and corporate interests, we ourselves are directly lobbied through social media and then again at arms length by the paid-for politicians posturing for us and wooing us.

In this context, when I look, for example, at the scenes in Edinburgh on Saturday, at TRAs drowning out women's voices, I'm angry. But I also think, these people are not our enemy. They're young, they're deluded. They should be demonstrating with rage because they have no secure housing, no secure jobs, no secure climate, world or worldview because they were born into late stage corporate cannibalism, reared with iphones in their hands. They are children of the state, children of the machine. They are deluded, brainwashed and confused. They have no context in the way that older people do.

I feel as sad for them as I feel angry. Anyway @DrSpartacular, I think the cartoon is one dimensional, and there's a lot more going on here.

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Great post

Whenever I see that cartoon I want to draw one about my experience of years 2008 - 2024. It would look quite different in the last few years :)

OP posts:

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 08:41

missin · 08/04/2024 04:49

Not posted bc to respond to Qs I've ended up writing really long outing replies and then I've seen the convo move on and thought I'd derail posting again

But here seems fine to jump in 😂

I could have done with having the word "grooming" in my vocabulary as a child, sounds like from OPs post downthread they could have too

Tbh professionals could have done with the word too

The blame was on children, not men and has never really been laid at professionals who allowed it to happen bc it's so much easier to say we didn't act for fear of racism with one type of abuser than admit that it wasn't hidden, wasn't secret, and wasn't alarming anyone in the first place until it was poc men

My home was notorious and was closed down over it but... like our "older boyfriends" were not treated like the problem... that was OUR risky behaviour and bad choices being made and they could sign ✍🏽 the bloody visitor log and shake hands with staff

You could not miss what happened in my city, it didn't need Sherlock to help the police ... they just didn't bother till they could say oh we found it hard in case they found us racist. Records have been lost, things are covered up (at least for myself, things that there is not possible for evidence to not exist bc LAC children are logged and reported on constantly... nobody seems able to find)
bc it's just a convenient lie for how perfectly accepted it was that some kids would go through it by a LOT of people and was happening for decades before it was even thought about as a problem with the men not the children

I object to it being reserved in peoples heads (the word grooming) to be combined with "gang" which idk "ring" sounds kinda happy like a circus... in comparison, like it's still not gonna trouble folk enough, bad apples amongst everyone sorta attitudes

and wish we would use the same language across the board reporting bc in 2012 I wasn't contributing to the narrative police wanted to excuse my city and I really do think some people can only see things when they look like their pictures in their heads associated with language used ...

It's not a Muslim thing to groom any more than it's a Christian thing to groom

Check any YouTube video on grooming scandals and read the comments... everyone wants to send folk home and apparently that's the problem and then it's fixed, when we had this problem, we have had it and had some parts of the UK as hotbeds for it for decades on decades ... pre immigration but it feels like a lovely comforting lie from my own experience to say "lessons learnt, we worried about racism" than admit ... for a long time we blamed children, promoted the concept they could consent, and did nothing about it anyway because we didn't not know, we knew and didn't want to do anything about it, clearly- for those troublemaker kids who bought it on themselves (that WAS the attitude!)

Why the fuck wouldn't men who are that way inclined find it easy?

I never once worried my "older boyfriend/s" were going to be in trouble... who was gonna report them? To who? The police who thought I could consent and prostitute myself? Even my social worker could have a friendly chat, as could the std clinic, as could key workers etc with them, Joe bloggs could see you with older men and not bat an eye to it ... it was normalised and whistleblowers only got listened to imo once there was a way to hack it on the back of other issues (racism, immigration)

Great post - again!

I found the term "grooming" very useful to describe what happened to me too.

I feel its now being somewhat diluted by it being used as an insult against people, rather than in its "true" sense. And actually you raise a good point. If the meaning of "groomer" changes (from "someone doing specific activities with a child that will enable them to sexually abuse that child later" to "anyone I think is acting creepily/not complying with my view of safeguarding") then what happens is you take away the language that helps children accept what happened to them and that it wasn't their fault.

OP posts:

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 08:46

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 08:32

It's hard to know what has happened from that tweet to be honest! Yes most people have had that experience. It's quite unusual to broadcast it like that though. Reminds me of a "you OK hun?" style Facebook post.

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You think it’s unusual to complain about something you’ve been annoyed by posting about it online? Have you ever been to AIBU?

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 08:49

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 08:46

You think it’s unusual to complain about something you’ve been annoyed by posting about it online? Have you ever been to AIBU?

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If she posted that on AIBU she'd get a load of replies of "need more context" and then (based on what I've seen from AIBU) would probably be forced into giving more context and told it was a drip feed!

I'm honestly not going to say more without knowing what she's specifically referring to by "being erased". Because I'd be speculating (amd don't want to be accused of talking out of both sides of my mouth )

OP posts:

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:03

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 08:36

Great post

Whenever I see that cartoon I want to draw one about my experience of years 2008 - 2024. It would look quite different in the last few years :)

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The cartoon was drawn by Colin Wright who is an American evolutionary biologist in his late 30s (my guess). I would be very surprised if he had any awareness of MT!

https://www.realityslaststand.com/

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:09

Actually I am going to speculate (a little).

https://x.com/JaneyHBomb/status/1777230725181280615

Apparently KJK was referring to an MP she thought "was on her side" for not crediting her.

If this reply is true, this is the MO that I have seen a lot and was talking about when I said KJK seems to fall out with people she works with.

I personally am confident enough with people who are "on my side" not to take it personally if they don't mention me. I wouldn't see it as them trying to "take my credit" and if I was upset about it I'd talk to them directly not put it on my socials.

It's the kind of thing the cliquey girls at school do. Strange behaviour from a grown woman who claims she's just giving women a microphone.

https://x.com/JaneyHBomb/status/1777230725181280615

OP posts:

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:10

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:03

The cartoon was drawn by Colin Wright who is an American evolutionary biologist in his late 30s (my guess). I would be very surprised if he had any awareness of MT!

https://www.realityslaststand.com/

Edited

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He is an anthropologist. That's very different to an evolutionary biologist. Anthropology is not science.

OP posts:

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:12

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:10

He is an anthropologist. That's very different to an evolutionary biologist. Anthropology is not science.

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Who are you talking about?

Colin Wright is an Evolutionary Biologist.

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:12

https://drcolinwright.com/about

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:15

https://escholarship.org/content/qt4pm302q6/qt4pm302q6.pdf?t=prk0d2

Spiders!

https://escholarship.org/content/qt4pm302q6/qt4pm302q6.pdf?t=prk0d2

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:15

Oh sorry, I got confused. I thought the whole site was someone's own personal site. Clicked on the first link and got this:

OP posts:

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:18

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:15

https://escholarship.org/content/qt4pm302q6/qt4pm302q6.pdf?t=prk0d2

Spiders!

Nice! 🤓 love a bit of evolutionary biology

OP posts:

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:22

Basically though kellie he has an identical qualification to me, and I don't position myself as any kind of "expert" in gender studies. I can spot when people are talking pseudoscientific nonsense though (e.g. Peterson's lobsters, the clownfish).

Biology is amazing but you could basically find pretty much any model of behaviour you wanted to post hoc support your theory of "innate" human behaviour.

Apart from one where more than two animals are involved on sexual reproduction. Although I wouldn't be at all surprised if with advances in DNA technology we find some examples of that too.

OP posts:

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:23

The first link I posted was to Colin Wright’s Substack, which is where the cartoon was published (along with X)

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/my-political-journey

He writes about lots of topics, but is unlikely to be familiar with a Trotskyist faction of Labour that was dissolved in 1991 (the earliest date on the cartoon is 2008 for starters)!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_tendency

Elon Musk Tweeted My Cartoon

Commentators on the left set about debunking my ‘lived experience’ with charts and abstractions.

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/my-political-journey

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:24

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:22

Basically though kellie he has an identical qualification to me, and I don't position myself as any kind of "expert" in gender studies. I can spot when people are talking pseudoscientific nonsense though (e.g. Peterson's lobsters, the clownfish).

Biology is amazing but you could basically find pretty much any model of behaviour you wanted to post hoc support your theory of "innate" human behaviour.

Apart from one where more than two animals are involved on sexual reproduction. Although I wouldn't be at all surprised if with advances in DNA technology we find some examples of that too.

I’m talking about the cartoon! Specifically the cartoon! Giving a source for it, continuing the conversation in the post I quoted!

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:25

Look!

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:26

He was also apparently born in 1985 so 13 in 2008

So I'm not sure how much exposure he would have had to an "adult" worldview of politics to draw that picture.

Mine would be quite different. I'd put his "2021" view at around 2015 actually.

OP posts:

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:27

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:25

Look!

Give me a chance! I don't often get to do evolutionary biology geeking! I got overexcited! 😂

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KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:28

Colin Wright is an American, he was mostly interested in spiders until circa 2020.

Deffo not likely to have been interested in a largely Liverpudlian based Trotskyist group that was well over before he was even in high school (if my guess at his age is correct).

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:29

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:27

Give me a chance! I don't often get to do evolutionary biology geeking! I got overexcited! 😂

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Your first response was to say he’s an anthropologist! 🤪

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:29

Right. I'm going to draw it later. I have to work so it will be a bit later on, but maybe it will help with discussion
We should all do one! Would be interesting

OP posts:

Original poster

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:31

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:28

Colin Wright is an American, he was mostly interested in spiders until circa 2020.

Deffo not likely to have been interested in a largely Liverpudlian based Trotskyist group that was well over before he was even in high school (if my guess at his age is correct).

He looks like he made a conscious choice to pursue a career as an "influencer" in the footsteps of JP to me. Started immediately he finished his PhD

https://drcolinwright.com/about

Dr. Colin Wright

evolutionary biologist | speaker | writer

https://drcolinwright.com/about

OP posts:

KellieJaysLapdog · 08/04/2024 09:48

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 09:31

He looks like he made a conscious choice to pursue a career as an "influencer" in the footsteps of JP to me. Started immediately he finished his PhD

https://drcolinwright.com/about

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Perhaps, but he’s still very unlikely to have been aware of a Trotskyist group inside a U.K. political party that was dead before he reached his teen years.

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 10:06

NefertitiV · 08/04/2024 07:46

@OldCrone

No I didn't. I was quoting another poster (who I think is Australian). I know almost nothing about Australian politics, although I was aware he had left the ALP as I googled his name after reading the post I quoted.

I'm aware it was Hellofabore's post. You chose though to bold a sentence of the post - the part the says Mundine is a former ALP member. Mundine has little respect in Australia, particularly among his own indigenous people.

You think CPAC is 'far right', I think they look like the right wing end of various conservative parties. It all comes down to what your definition of 'far right' is. Is it right wing conservatives or is it fascism?

Yes, I do, and becoming more so all the time.

To me, far right means fascist, Nazi, BNP. Not mainstream conservatives, even the more right wing amongst them.

That's extreme far-right. Far-right extremism is an area we are teetering into at the moment.

I'm aware it was Hellofabore's post. You chose though to bold a sentence of the post - the part the says Mundine is a former ALP member. Mundine has little respect in Australia, particularly among his own indigenous people.

I didn't choose to bold that sentence. The bolded part was bolded in the original post by Hellofabore, as she was quoting someone else (so not her words either). This was quite clear in the context of the original post.

That's extreme far-right.

So in your terminology, 'far right' is CPAC, who align with the right wing conservative politics of people like Thatcher and Reagan. What I would call far right (fascism, Nazis, the BNP) you refer to as 'extreme far right'.

We seem to have a misunderstanding based on terminology. I thought KJK was being accused of being a Nazi. It seems she was just being accused of being a Thatcherite. (Although I think she'd disagree with that as well.)

NefertitiV · 08/04/2024 10:17

@OldCrone

We seem to have a misunderstanding based on terminology. I thought KJK was being accused of being a Nazi. It seems she was just being accused of being a Thatcherite. (Although I think she'd disagree with that as well.)

I don't think she's a Nazi. Idiots dressed as Nazis turn up at her events and it is unclear exactly why and if anyone in particular funds/invites them.