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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

KJK’s insane rant

1000 replies

Dontblameitonsunshine · 26/03/2024 09:38

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who have spoken up have risked their careers. Kjk has become famous and has started a business from LWS. She has benefited way more than any of these doctors.

Her work could be powerful if she just stopped attacking everyone else. But these days she is a demagogue and causes more harm than good by capitalising on vulnerable and timid women and telling them that they need her to speak for them.

Part 2 - #FirstDoNoHarm although maybe #FirstDoSomeHarm - what will it take for medics to catch up?

This is the original #AdultHumanFemale channel and home of Kellie-Jay Keen aka Posie Parker.If you would like to donate to help support us, click here ⇨ http...

https://youtu.be/H509BAh59ak?si=tyTVneh2Jiz0rY6T

OP posts:
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63
AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 13:59

Helleofabore · 02/04/2024 13:47

And also 'meanwhile, in Australia', three women are taking John Pesutto to court for defamation because of the false claims that have been made, such as in that starobserver article.

And AdamRyan claimed to be looking for a thread about those cases... yet doesn't seem to have much understanding beyond the same superficial claims made in that posted article in the starobserver.

Edited

Did you read the article? It's a summary of what the NZ regulator found, so quite the opposite of "false claims". It found that saying "Keen does court the far right" to be an opinion someone is entitled to hold.

Media was not wrong in describing Kellie-Jay Keen aka Posie Parker as “anti-trans” or that neo-Nazis supported her in Melbourne, New Zealand’s media watchdog has held....The Media Council and the Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA) dismissed a slew of petitions filed by Keen’s supporters.....The BSA said that the descriptors “anti-trans”, and “trans-exclusionary” were an “accurate characterisation of her publicly-expressed views”....The authority further said that it was a fact that neo-Nazis attended the British anti-trans campaigner’s Melbourne rally in March 2023 and performed the Nazi salute outside Victorian Parliament. The authority said that it was open for the media to describe that neo-Nazis supported Keen.....The media reports that people “doing Nazi salutes” at Keen’s previous events, the authority said, “was a statement of fact, supported by footage, regarding people at a previous event that could not be said to leave viewers with an unfairly negative impression of Parker”......Police Minister Ginny Andersen’s statement Keen ‘does court the far right,’ was “her opinion, to which she is entitled”, the authority added.

All these lawsuits must be costing KJK a fortune.

Helleofabore · 02/04/2024 14:00

AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 13:53

helle here is what I actually said. Some objected to her connections with the right. At least Jean Hatchet. Maybe others.

At no point have I said anything about my own views on those links. You are putting words in my mouth. Again.

I don't like her, based on how she used to behave on here and the fact she's pretty click baity and looking for donations. I'm allowed to not like her because of these things. No "ideological purity" involved.

And we asked YOU about her connections.

You plopped down these links. You didn't clarify that you didn't agree with them. And when I asked for clarification, you still didn't clarify.

I was very specific in asking you for clarification about why you posted what you posted. You told me "You are more than capable of reading the article(s). I can't help it if you aren't "clear" after looking at those."

So, when asked for clarification, because you seem to have a habit of doing exactly what you have just done, you chose to be snarky and to not clarify why you posted it. Personally, I couldn't give a fuck whether you 'like her' or not.

However, you ended up spreading more misinformation about her.

AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 14:03

theothercatpurred · 02/04/2024 13:59

Do you have any evidence for this belief of yours, or is it purely based on opinion rather than evidence?

It's pretty obvious to anyone other than her followers that she's a grifter. She makes a loud noise but actually delivers little in terms of real change.

There is a difference between raising money through merch to support a cause, and milking a cause for personal profit. KJK followers refuse to see the difference. I've had arguments with women in real life who say that KJK is "allowed to do what she wants with her money" and that those who donate are all perfectly happy with her using their money to pay off her mortgage or pay for luxury hotels and business class flights. But I don't think that's true. I think lots of people who donate to her / sign up for her memberships or whatever think their money is going towards making a difference and so they're being fleeced. You have an ethical responsibility as to what you use donated money for, that's different to personal money you earn as wages.

Activism is NOT getting a bunch of working class women / women with not a lot of money to pay off your mortgage for your very nice house and then bragging about it.

I suppose it also depends how effective you think KJK is being. She makes a lot of noise but I don't think she's doing that much to actually create change.

I'd like you to explain why you think that KJK is responsible for "pitting activists within that movement against each other". She has been excluded by other activists for years, starting with WPUK in about 2018. You are attributing a lot of power to her if you think she is solely responsible for all the disagreements between different groups fighting against transgender ideology.

Please take some time to look at the language she uses. KJK is a classic mean girl / playground bully. WPUK rescinded an offer for KJK to speak at one of their events after they realised her politics didn't align with theirs as she's happy to cosy up to the far right (my words not theirs) - that time it was Tommy Robinson plus comments she mad - but there has been a catalogue of far right associations since. WPUK publised a very carefully written words to explain this, and then said NOTHING for many years (choosing to break their silence briefly a little while back, I forget why now).

KJK in the meantime went on the attack, creating the narrative about "head girls", purity spirals etc etc and trying to goad left wing feminists into a response. Like any other narcissist (and I think her narcissism is the root of the problem) shewcouldn't let it drop. The way she treated them, and the schism she actively cultivated is down to her. It wasn't two sided as it was her keeping the rift alive.

It's also not a purity spiral to not want to work with racists, or anyone who's happy to work with them, and KJK is.

KJK loves contraversy, indeed she makes money out of it - the more outraged she is, the more she stirs up bad feeling, the more money comes in, in terms of donations and YouTube revenue (while she could still monetise it) and donations.

I'm not going to go into all the many many pieces of evidence on why KJK has the far right turning up to her events, as we've been here before and again the KJK faithful just refuse to see it - but yes, it's down to her and you're utterly naive if you think she can't help it that the far right turn up to her events, or it doesn't matter or refuse to accept it's even happening. The fact she usually refuses to denounce the far right should tell you all you need to know (I know it doesn't here though, sadly).

And this is what I mean about harming the movement - partly. She creates schisms by inventing narratives about other activists that are just untrue. WPUK and others on the left do plenty of work behind the scenes that is making real change. KJK should knows this well, but it doesn't suit her narrative, so she pushes a narrative that they are more interested in theory than action. It's a nonsense.

And it's why this thread is here. She's creating a narrative about CAN SG that just isn't true. There is no reason for GC people to be against CAN SG - other than a manufactured narrative that KJK is pushing. She's encouraging you all to think CAN SG is something it isn't, and to stand against them. It's exactly what the TRAs do with GC feminists - they monster us, creating a false narrative on what we're about, then stand against that fictional monster they've created.

Please ask yourself why KJK would do this?

It's pretty obvious to me, it's because her aim isn't to create change (if it was, she'd be celebrating the progress that the CAN SG conference represents), it's to make money and feed her narcissistic ego. I'm sorry you can't see it.

She also has the fucking cheek to claim other activists sucesses as her own. She knows full well that there is a lot of work behind the scenes that the people involved can't talk about publicly, and so she lies that they are doing nothing / are more interested in theory, and then when things do show signs of changing, she claims it's because of her, not the countless hours and thankless task of lobbying those with power to make change, or holding the line behind the scenes in difficult circumstances (e.g. the VAWG sector).

Are KJK's events where she invites ordinary women to stand up and speak about their experiences part of her 'toxic actions'?

Yes, absolutely. She invites ordinary women into dangerous situations she's created, where TRAs often turn up, and she also invites the far right and puts them at risk. She doesn't do nearly enough to ensure the safety of those women, I can only conclude she doesn't give a fuck about them.

The act of standing up and saying your piece is empowering, but it's not being built on at a LWS event. It's just preaching to the converted, and the voices are often drowned out by TRAs. But, the more contraversial the content (because of TRA or far right involvement) the more attention she gets and the more money she makes out of it. She's using those women for content creation which she can monitise, to pay for her mortgage and lifestyle, while putting them at serious risk of physical harm. It's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt.

I know you'll just argue with me as you don't want to accept it, but it's pretty clear from here.

All movements where entry is easy, and money and platforms are given to those who put the effort in, are open to exploitation and/or narcs.

KJK is exploiting the GC movement, and her rhetoric has been very damaging, I'm sorry if you can't see it. Hopefully attacking the very medics who whistleblew about GIDS in the first place will open some people's eyes to how she's manipulating people into going against anyone who's not bowing down to her, it's narcissism 101.

Edited

Well said

pickledandpuzzled · 02/04/2024 14:13

What’s really noticeable is that KJK isn’t actually talked about that much here. The events are highlighted so people know they are on. Odd videos are shared - and let’s be honest, who couldn’t watch the Buttergasp on repeat all day?

Threads about KJK seem to me (no exhaustive research done) to be mainly someone posting something scurrilous and trying to point out how awful she is.
KJK is then defended as the accusations are a bit unreasonable.

I think if the critics were more reasonable in tone, they may get more agreement. As it is, it all feels a bit ‘I saw Goody Posie dancing naked in the woods’.

BezMills · 02/04/2024 14:22

stone cold legend

If you feel this post lacks 50 paragraph essay quality, please feel free to imagine I wrote more.

AlisonDonut · 02/04/2024 15:05

Even if KJK was a right wing nut job, she is still legally allowed an opinion, and in this instance, her opinion that the medics are still travelling down a road that will just lead back into the forest is completely valid. I'd love them to prove her wrong. I've just heard Marcus Evans on a podcast saying he is not in disagreement that people can transition. So there you go then.
ETA...yes that podcast. Right at the end.

'she delivers little in terms of real change'.

Go on then, show us the 'real change' that you are delivering? She is known globally now, and interviewed across the world stage. Talk about jealous!

theothercatpurred · 02/04/2024 15:24

AlisonDonut · 02/04/2024 15:05

Even if KJK was a right wing nut job, she is still legally allowed an opinion, and in this instance, her opinion that the medics are still travelling down a road that will just lead back into the forest is completely valid. I'd love them to prove her wrong. I've just heard Marcus Evans on a podcast saying he is not in disagreement that people can transition. So there you go then.
ETA...yes that podcast. Right at the end.

'she delivers little in terms of real change'.

Go on then, show us the 'real change' that you are delivering? She is known globally now, and interviewed across the world stage. Talk about jealous!

Edited

I don't think she's a right wing nut job. I think she's a narcissist who lacks morals or politics.

I think she'll take followers (and their money) wherever she finds them, and is very happy to have a load of far right followers, and to encourage more to follow her, but she doesn't much care who they are.

BezMills · 02/04/2024 15:28

that's a pretty dumb take on it, but okay

theothercatpurred · 02/04/2024 15:29

WRT making change - I've already said I'm talking about lobbying and change made behind the scenes, so I'm hardly going to list it here. Which I know you won't like.

Are you aware of how lobbying works?

Jealous? Give over 😂
You're parroting another of KJK's narratives which is classic narcissism.

She reminds me a lot of Dr Jessica Taylor sometimes - another narcissist who claims that her detractors must just be jealous of her. I think that kind of accusation is pure projection TBH, says a lot more about KJK and JT and how their minds work than the people they're accusing IMO.

KellieJaysLapdog · 02/04/2024 15:40

‘I’ve absolutely, definitely done some work but I’m not letting youse lot see it’

theothercatpurred · 02/04/2024 16:53

KellieJaysLapdog · 02/04/2024 15:40

‘I’ve absolutely, definitely done some work but I’m not letting youse lot see it’

Grow up.

AlisonDonut · 02/04/2024 17:13

theothercatpurred · 02/04/2024 15:29

WRT making change - I've already said I'm talking about lobbying and change made behind the scenes, so I'm hardly going to list it here. Which I know you won't like.

Are you aware of how lobbying works?

Jealous? Give over 😂
You're parroting another of KJK's narratives which is classic narcissism.

She reminds me a lot of Dr Jessica Taylor sometimes - another narcissist who claims that her detractors must just be jealous of her. I think that kind of accusation is pure projection TBH, says a lot more about KJK and JT and how their minds work than the people they're accusing IMO.

Obviously, what with being a lap dog and all.

I'm just a pleb unlike you and your top level lobbying, which doesn't appear to have had any impact anywhere but hey ho.

AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 17:19

theother now you've said about narcissism I'm finding the landing page for party of women quite striking 😂
https://www.partyofwomen.org/

Party Of Women | POW

This is the home page for Party Of Women. Join us in the fight for women's rights.

https://www.partyofwomen.org

spannasaurus · 02/04/2024 17:27

Do you find the landing page of the Labour Party quite striking as well

KJK’s insane rant
AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 17:29

It's slightly different isn't it? There are multiple people on it for starters....

IwantToRetire · 02/04/2024 17:59

Seriously! Why are so many falling to this farcically obvious attempt to get another thread about KJK bogged down in the old arguements that have been discussed 4 or 5 years ago.

References to Jean Hacket and NZ clearly shows this is just a wind up or someone who is insulting FWR because they could so easily have searched FWR to see that these issues were dealt with at the time.

So either these are people who are so incredibily ignorant but arrogant enough to pontificate about something they know nothing about, or are so sure we are all dim wits that they can use up our time with points that have been made months and years ago.

Another element of course is that nothing moves forward.

Does anyone remember the group of former FWR posters who, if memory serves me right ,left to try and set up a sort of online resource so you could just for instance type in Jean Hacket and you would get all the posts that would explain the history, and not think we are all so stupid we are going to get caught in another cul de sac.

Why is anyone responding.

The whole point of what is being done is to create a thread about KJK is the subject but there are innumberable posts with references to the far right.

If the people who are posting this ancient non evidence are goading people keep getting replies it only encourages them.

Just ask why they haven't done their research.

And for those who think it is so unfair to be asked to substantiate their rambling non sequiturs you can point out that if MN's own search function doesn't work in a way they understand, they will find that google goes out of its way to store links to FWR / MN and they can easily find the threads that were relevant at the time.

We do not need to spoon feed them.

Surely even given the provocative nature of the OP a more logical and adult thread would have been about where to now?

ie those in the profession might want to talk about what more tentative steps can be taken.

Those of us who feel we need to be more demanding what steps can we take.

For instance there is going to be a conference in Dublin that's intention is to reach out to members of the public to explain the issues. Should we do being this in the UK. Most meetings are aimed at those already of a GC / SBR point of view. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5039729-the-countess-conference-resisting-ideology-27-april-2024-dublin

If only we could tag threads as now being in the grip of time wasters.

BezMills · 02/04/2024 18:17

Stone Cold Legend!

To the tune of American Woman

AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 18:22

BezMills · 02/04/2024 18:17

Stone Cold Legend!

To the tune of American Woman

Oops

AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 18:23

IwantToRetire · 02/04/2024 17:59

Seriously! Why are so many falling to this farcically obvious attempt to get another thread about KJK bogged down in the old arguements that have been discussed 4 or 5 years ago.

References to Jean Hacket and NZ clearly shows this is just a wind up or someone who is insulting FWR because they could so easily have searched FWR to see that these issues were dealt with at the time.

So either these are people who are so incredibily ignorant but arrogant enough to pontificate about something they know nothing about, or are so sure we are all dim wits that they can use up our time with points that have been made months and years ago.

Another element of course is that nothing moves forward.

Does anyone remember the group of former FWR posters who, if memory serves me right ,left to try and set up a sort of online resource so you could just for instance type in Jean Hacket and you would get all the posts that would explain the history, and not think we are all so stupid we are going to get caught in another cul de sac.

Why is anyone responding.

The whole point of what is being done is to create a thread about KJK is the subject but there are innumberable posts with references to the far right.

If the people who are posting this ancient non evidence are goading people keep getting replies it only encourages them.

Just ask why they haven't done their research.

And for those who think it is so unfair to be asked to substantiate their rambling non sequiturs you can point out that if MN's own search function doesn't work in a way they understand, they will find that google goes out of its way to store links to FWR / MN and they can easily find the threads that were relevant at the time.

We do not need to spoon feed them.

Surely even given the provocative nature of the OP a more logical and adult thread would have been about where to now?

ie those in the profession might want to talk about what more tentative steps can be taken.

Those of us who feel we need to be more demanding what steps can we take.

For instance there is going to be a conference in Dublin that's intention is to reach out to members of the public to explain the issues. Should we do being this in the UK. Most meetings are aimed at those already of a GC / SBR point of view. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5039729-the-countess-conference-resisting-ideology-27-april-2024-dublin

If only we could tag threads as now being in the grip of time wasters.

Edited

"Dealt with at the time" 😂
Maybe I'll use that line next time there is a thread about Labour, or the Equality Act 😂

I've enjoyed reading some other perspectives tbh

OneMorePlant · 02/04/2024 20:25

theothercatpurred · 02/04/2024 15:29

WRT making change - I've already said I'm talking about lobbying and change made behind the scenes, so I'm hardly going to list it here. Which I know you won't like.

Are you aware of how lobbying works?

Jealous? Give over 😂
You're parroting another of KJK's narratives which is classic narcissism.

She reminds me a lot of Dr Jessica Taylor sometimes - another narcissist who claims that her detractors must just be jealous of her. I think that kind of accusation is pure projection TBH, says a lot more about KJK and JT and how their minds work than the people they're accusing IMO.

Just Saying Amanda Seales GIF by NBC

One of the signs of narcissism: accuse everyone you don't like of being a narcissist along with a list of other accusations and insults.

AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 20:43

OneMorePlant · 02/04/2024 20:25

One of the signs of narcissism: accuse everyone you don't like of being a narcissist along with a list of other accusations and insults.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/narcissist-signs

The nine criteria are:

A grandiose sense of self-importance.
Fantasies about having or deserving.
A sense of self-superiority.
A need for excessive admiration.
A sense of entitlement.
Exploitative behavior.
A lack of empathy.
Frequent envy.
Arrogance.

Nope, nothing in there about "accusing other people of narcissism" 😂

Signs You’re Dealing With a Narcissist (and What That Really Means)

People are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) because they meet at least five of nine specific criteria. Find out what they are — and why you shouldn’t describe people as “narcissists.”

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/narcissist-signs

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