KJK’s insane rant

[Dontblameitonsunshine]

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who have spoken up have risked their careers. Kjk has become famous and has started a business from LWS. She has benefited way more than any of these doctors.

Her work could be powerful if she just stopped attacking everyone else. But these days she is a demagogue and causes more harm than good by capitalising on vulnerable and timid women and telling them that they need her to speak for them.

I am just waiting for that dossier that Pesutto relied on to be presented here as evidence, oldcrone. And the wikipedia entries. And I then want to see what those who talk about 'the right' say about some of the interviews that Julie Bindel has done and whether that makes her having the same alignments.

Yes. This is an excellent point. I think it's built into whatever the loose gathering of people who are working to establish sensible principles that most are resistant to tribalism and pat ideas that lack context and nuance.

"seem to have" is about right.
Oh I'm so concerned that MEGA BITCH KJK THAT I HATE HATE HATE is damaging our beautiful and important movement. Uh huh. Keep giving it walls of text on that, we're here for you.

https://www.starobserver.com.au/news/complaints-against-nz-media-for-calling-posie-parker-anti-trans-and-citing-neo-nazi-support-dismissed/226188

Yes - but of course that doesn't suit the needs of those who spend their time calling women on here "christian, right wing, bigots, conspiracy theorists, lap dogs, fangirls" and so on.
If your intention is to promote your own limited views rather than engage in discussions in good faith, then being able to accommodate different views is evidently too intellectually challenging. It's a shame as threads can get stalled when this happens - fortunately so many women on here are clear thinking & understand nuance, complexities and at times, contradictory views.

I agree with cats that KJK has pitted activists against each other. It's why this whole thread is full of emotive language about "hate". It's why we get threads about JCJ etc

That's Jane Clare Jones who produced a whole speshial issue of her magazine about her hatred of KJK?

That's pretty hard core hatred right there.

https://jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-for-women.html?m=1

I didn't realise at that time that the Women of Liberation Front were brought on board. When I was told I researched a bit.

1. I read about Kara Dansky seeking and gaining $15,000 from Alliance Defending Freedom which is a right wing religious group strongly against abortion. I read their reasons for doing so. It was to pursue a Supreme Court case. I don't like those reasons. I understand them. I just don't agree. WoLF statement

I raised my hand to object to pairing with them. I was ignored. I raised it again. I was ignored. I thought I must be wrong because everyone else was fine with this.

1. I kept asking about these right wing links. My questions were either ignored or met with "It's not a problem for me". Posie said she is happy to work with anyone and will freely say so. I am not.

If you read the link oldcrone put upthread, in it Maya Forstater says she asked JCJ to write that edition. I highly doubt its full of "hatred".

It is OK to criticise people. It's even OK not to like them very much. Neither of which is hatred.

If we can get over Jean being an ex Tory councillor, Jean can get over WoLF working on the same gender-resistant court cases as some Christian Right Wingers

So, just to confirm, you are claiming that it is the Neo-nazi group who came on their own accord to the Melbourne event that you are now claiming is Kellie Jay Keen's "connections with the right.'

Please be very clear. Is this what you are basing her 'connections with the right' on?

You are more than capable of reading the article(s). I can't help it if you aren't "clear" after looking at those.

There was a giant MN thread on that TRN issue but the published material itself was mostly PoMo Gibberish.

And can you please be clear what how what you have posted is to do with Kellie Jay Keen? That she will 'work' with anyone? Yes. We know that.

So, because Kellie Jay Keen has 'worked' with Alliance Defending Freedom on this one issue, you feel you can support her being 'right wing'. While in fact, she has continued to say that she is NOT right wing, and that she supports women's access to abortion?

Are you saying that no person who wishes to remain pure of thought should speak to or speak at events that Christian groups organise? Because even if the sole topic of discussion is gender identity issues, that they will be forever connected with the group?

I highly doubt its full of "hatred"

Have you read it?

And here we go again. Another fruitless thread where people throw mud at KJK then point out she’s a bit grubby.

No one thinks KJK is perfect. I might well prefer not to invite her to an event if I were to organise one, as she’s not playing by anyone else’s rule book and that would make me anxious! If I knew her personally I may feel differently as I’m sure her private persona is different.

Why does KJK have to follow anyone else’s rules? She doesn’t hide what she does. She’ll work with anyone who agrees sex is immutable.
Some of those people believe we shouldn’t use animal products. Some of them believe God despises abortion. Some of them believe the sky is blue. Some of them may actually believe the earth is flat. So what?

You do realise that those Neo Nazis came not to be part of the women's rally, and are on record as saying they didn't support the women's rally.

And that their behaviour at the event shows that they were not interested in the women's rally at all. They spent most of their time down the end facing and antagonising the Victorian Socialist party and Antifa. By the same logic you are using, that that article used, those men can be said to be connected to Antifa and the Victorian Socialist party.

When they came up to the Parliament House stairs, they didn't even listen to the women. They faced the transgender activists and unfurled their banner. That banner was not a Women's Rights Campaigning banner. That was a banner specifically to antagonise the transgender activists. They then walked past those activists. They also say they were there because they knew some people from one of the other groups who were finishing up their own permitted protest on those stairs that they did regularly.

You did know, didn't you, that weekends in front of that Parliament House is a regular protesting and rallying point and multiple groups are there at the exact same time sometimes? As what happened on that day. You did know there were other groups there protesting that started before the women did?

Have you even seen the footage of the event? I am happy to go back and find the timings that we noted for how much time they spent in front of other groups vs anywhere near the women.

Did you realise that over the past week or so the Australian Broadcasting Corporation printed a statement that detached themselves from their presenter who made false statements about KJK being in any way connected to those neo nazis? And that KJK made very clear statements after about how she didn't even know who those men were.

I think if you find that starobserver article compelling, it shows just how little research you do when you make your claims.

In the unlikely event that you were to go to a Let Women Speak event, AdamRyan, would that make you right wing? Or KJK left wing? I’m struggling to understand how this guilty by association business works.

Meanwhile, in Australia.

On 27 March 2023, the ABC broadcast a 7.30 interview with Victorian opposition leader John Pesutto. That interview referred to the organisers of the “Let Women Speak” event held in Melbourne earlier that month and included a social media post by “Posie Parker”. Some viewers may have understood the interview to suggest that Kellie-Jay Keen, who was not named in the interview, who organised the Melbourne “Let Women Speak” event, has associations with Neo-Nazis. The ABC understands Ms Keen denies any association with Neo-Nazis and the ABC does not endorse any imputation that may have been conveyed to that effect.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/2024-03-27/kellie-jay-keen/103639808

And also 'meanwhile, in Australia', three women are taking John Pesutto to court for defamation because of the false claims that have been made, such as in that starobserver article.

And AdamRyan claimed to be looking for a thread about those cases... yet doesn't seem to have much understanding beyond the same superficial claims made in that posted article in the starobserver.

The ABC understands Ms Keen denies any association with Neo-Nazis and the ABC does not endorse any imputation that may have been conveyed to that effect.

And if I remember correctly, a whole bunch of Posie Haters loved the idea that she had invited Nazis, trumpeting see, we told you so dances right across social media.

I must admit to being surprised that someone who professes to have a depth of knowledge about Kellie Jay Keen would post about the Neo Nazis after all this time. It shows just how little research is being done and how some posters really do rely on other people's interpretation and framing of events and statements rather than going to original source and gaining a depth of understanding using their own critical thinking ability.

helle here is what I actually said. Some objected to her connections with the right. At least Jean Hatchet. Maybe others.

At no point have I said anything about my own views on those links. You are putting words in my mouth. Again.

I don't like her, based on how she used to behave on here and the fact she's pretty click baity and looking for donations. I'm allowed to not like her because of these things. No "ideological purity" involved.

Scroll on up, i put two links there

Accusations of being right wing are starting to lose their sting among left leaning Americans who I know. Me included. It makes us think about the actual right wing people we know and they're not so bad.

Do you have any evidence for this belief of yours, or is it purely based on opinion rather than evidence?

It's pretty obvious to anyone other than her followers that she's a grifter. She makes a loud noise but actually delivers little in terms of real change.

There is a difference between raising money through merch to support a cause, and milking a cause for personal profit. KJK followers refuse to see the difference. I've had arguments with women in real life who say that KJK is "allowed to do what she wants with her money" and that those who donate are all perfectly happy with her using their money to pay off her mortgage or pay for luxury hotels and business class flights. But I don't think that's true. I think lots of people who donate to her / sign up for her memberships or whatever think their money is going towards making a difference and so they're being fleeced. You have an ethical responsibility as to what you use donated money for, that's different to personal money you earn as wages.

Activism is NOT getting a bunch of working class women / women with not a lot of money to pay off your mortgage for your very nice house and then bragging about it.

I suppose it also depends how effective you think KJK is being. She makes a lot of noise but I don't think she's doing that much to actually create change.

I'd like you to explain why you think that KJK is responsible for "pitting activists within that movement against each other". She has been excluded by other activists for years, starting with WPUK in about 2018. You are attributing a lot of power to her if you think she is solely responsible for all the disagreements between different groups fighting against transgender ideology.

Please take some time to look at the language she uses. KJK is a classic mean girl / playground bully. WPUK rescinded an offer for KJK to speak at one of their events after they realised her politics didn't align with theirs as she's happy to cosy up to the far right (my words not theirs) - that time it was Tommy Robinson plus comments she mad - but there has been a catalogue of far right associations since. WPUK publised a very carefully written words to explain this, and then said NOTHING for many years (choosing to break their silence briefly a little while back, I forget why now).

KJK in the meantime went on the attack, creating the narrative about "head girls", purity spirals etc etc and trying to goad left wing feminists into a response. Like any other narcissist (and I think her narcissism is the root of the problem) shewcouldn't let it drop. The way she treated them, and the schism she actively cultivated is down to her. It wasn't two sided as it was her keeping the rift alive.

It's also not a purity spiral to not want to work with racists, or anyone who's happy to work with them, and KJK is.

KJK loves contraversy, indeed she makes money out of it - the more outraged she is, the more she stirs up bad feeling, the more money comes in, in terms of donations and YouTube revenue (while she could still monetise it) and donations.

I'm not going to go into all the many many pieces of evidence on why KJK has the far right turning up to her events, as we've been here before and again the KJK faithful just refuse to see it - but yes, it's down to her and you're utterly naive if you think she can't help it that the far right turn up to her events, or it doesn't matter or refuse to accept it's even happening. The fact she usually refuses to denounce the far right should tell you all you need to know (I know it doesn't here though, sadly).

And this is what I mean about harming the movement - partly. She creates schisms by inventing narratives about other activists that are just untrue. WPUK and others on the left do plenty of work behind the scenes that is making real change. KJK should knows this well, but it doesn't suit her narrative, so she pushes a narrative that they are more interested in theory than action. It's a nonsense.

And it's why this thread is here. She's creating a narrative about CAN SG that just isn't true. There is no reason for GC people to be against CAN SG - other than a manufactured narrative that KJK is pushing. She's encouraging you all to think CAN SG is something it isn't, and to stand against them. It's exactly what the TRAs do with GC feminists - they monster us, creating a false narrative on what we're about, then stand against that fictional monster they've created.

Please ask yourself why KJK would do this?

It's pretty obvious to me, it's because her aim isn't to create change (if it was, she'd be celebrating the progress that the CAN SG conference represents), it's to make money and feed her narcissistic ego. I'm sorry you can't see it.

She also has the fucking cheek to claim other activists sucesses as her own. She knows full well that there is a lot of work behind the scenes that the people involved can't talk about publicly, and so she lies that they are doing nothing / are more interested in theory, and then when things do show signs of changing, she claims it's because of her, not the countless hours and thankless task of lobbying those with power to make change, or holding the line behind the scenes in difficult circumstances (e.g. the VAWG sector).

Are KJK's events where she invites ordinary women to stand up and speak about their experiences part of her 'toxic actions'?

Yes, absolutely. She invites ordinary women into dangerous situations she's created, where TRAs often turn up, and she also invites the far right and puts them at risk. She doesn't do nearly enough to ensure the safety of those women, I can only conclude she doesn't give a fuck about them.

The act of standing up and saying your piece is empowering, but it's not being built on at a LWS event. It's just preaching to the converted, and the voices are often drowned out by TRAs. But, the more contraversial the content (because of TRA or far right involvement) the more attention she gets and the more money she makes out of it. She's using those women for content creation which she can monitise, to pay for her mortgage and lifestyle, while putting them at serious risk of physical harm. It's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt.

I know you'll just argue with me as you don't want to accept it, but it's pretty clear from here.

All movements where entry is easy, and money and platforms are given to those who put the effort in, are open to exploitation and/or narcs.

KJK is exploiting the GC movement, and her rhetoric has been very damaging, I'm sorry if you can't see it. Hopefully attacking the very medics who whistleblew about GIDS in the first place will open some people's eyes to how she's manipulating people into going against anyone who's not bowing down to her, it's narcissism 101.