KJK’s insane rant

[Dontblameitonsunshine]

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who have spoken up have risked their careers. Kjk has become famous and has started a business from LWS. She has benefited way more than any of these doctors.

Her work could be powerful if she just stopped attacking everyone else. But these days she is a demagogue and causes more harm than good by capitalising on vulnerable and timid women and telling them that they need her to speak for them.

Why do you think that?

Aren’t you doing the infighting with these posts against KJK?

@MalagaNights if it helps there are a few threads which talk positively about the conference

Imo there’s need for all voices, and that means the conference and KJK and everyone who is pushing forward

Well, again it was a long time ago but I thought she was quite brave to come and engage on the board having been a TRA. It was clear her increasingly GC views were affecting her relationship. And my recollection is she was pretty sensible and made interesting points. So I enjoyed reading her points.

Like I say, I wasn't that active for a bit due to personal circumstances. So maybe I missed something.

I think there seems to be a confusion between agreeing that there is a point being made that is a legitimate criticism by a person and an overextension of that concept that this means that posters agreeing that there is a legitimate criticism do not support the conference happening and an unwillingness to listen and learn from the sessions.

Whether it is intended or not, there is an absolutistness to this. Sure, Kellie Jay Keen might not listen. That is her decision and I would hope that she will watch and listen. But posters pushing back on attacks against Kellie Jay don't seem to be saying that the conference was not worthwhile or that they themselves will not watch the sessions and carefully consider what is said.

My take from what I have read on this thread is that most of us are keen to see the sessions and to draw our own conclusions. Something that I see as being what FWR regulars do all the fucking time. Sure, we will defend her right to say something. We will say, 'that is a valid point' and then we will go and watch and keep that valid point in mind and make our own decisions based on the years of reading the research and the anecdotes. Not based on one video.

That is what I am finding discordant here. And frankly, either I have too high expectations of regular posters that other regular posters don't have, or some posters are using this as an opportunity to undermine discussions on FWR that is more subtle than the outright abusiveness of calling us someone's lapdogs or 'fans', but is undermining all the same.

And yes. Labelling posters as 'fans' has the direct implication that we cannot make rational, unbiased analysis about what someone says. And what is remarkable, I suspect those who use those terms are those who are the ones who are not able to make rational, unbiased analysis of what people write or say and are people who need to categorise others into overly simplistic 'good' and 'bad' labels.

Like I say, I wasn't that active for a bit due to personal circumstances. So maybe I missed something.

Maybe you did.

This ⬆️⬆️
I really hope it doesn't come to that @MalagaNights but I would completely understand if it did.
That's the risk of this type of approach.

Women, spend your own money wisely, do not squander it.
God, mate, thanks for the info but I will still spend or squander my own money as I see fit.

SapphosRock on this thread appears to concur - "90% toxic, 10% ninja"
I have only read their posts from the last two years. I would say Sapphos is 90% toxic in their posting style.

but when she posted here she did not come across that well.
Neither do you tbh. I guess you are more alike than you think.

And now I need to quietly say that other first post.
God, it's so bloody tedious.

Rude. Feel free not to speak to me if you find it tedious.

Care to elaborate or am I going to have to AS? Did she do anything in particular or did you just not like her opinions?

Want to say 💐thank you @MalagaNights for the work you do and have done in this field. I appreciate the sacrifice.

It has been said by Debbie Hayton that it was the availability of transition that encouraged Debbite to transition. Helen Joyce similary describes the widespread discussion of anorexia in teens leading to an increase in teenage anorexia.

Since 2018 I've heard arguments between KJK and Julia Long on the one hand and academic feminists (I'm thinking of Jane Clare Jones) on the other over whether the category trans describes something innate or whether the naming of it creates the reality.

My own view is the naming promotes and encourages reality. This is why KJK is exasperated at the continued referencing of trans as an everyday reality, rather than a description of behaviour. She sees it as a self perpetuating issue that harms individuals.

For myself I think these two ideas should be aired side by side and the merits of both observed.

Sadly, some years ago those making the argument about language were pretty comprehensively scorned and belittled by those making the argument about genderism as an innate characteristic. The medical conference is important. But it seems to me the two ideas need to be attendant. What is trans? Is it medical, is it social? How should society handle it?

KJK is making this point with some emotion because it is important. Otherwise the picture discussed is partial. I would love to see a conference where the two approaches were considered together.

The twitter noise is the twitter noise. Best to ignore it really.

Same. Absolutely agree.

It's the grueling part of the marathon where you know this hill is painful but you have to go up it to come down to the other side.

I find your arguments tedious as in how you do it. Instead of attacking a person (KJK and her personality) try debating, properly, what she is making videos about. But you won't because you can't. I have seen you on multiple other threads and you can't back up anything. It's like trying to talk to fog but if that's your aim, well done .

OK so a quick AS was illuminating. I stand by what I said then. Not very interested into getting into cliquey infighting, I try to judge each post on its merits.

@Delphinium20 and @BackCats I agree. I also appreciate what she is doing and has done. I worry that a person with such high journalistic standing using the word "treatment" serves to validate the idea that people need "treatment". To me it does highlight the importance of the words we choose.

I'm not on any social media and only post here so have never been involved in any of the infighting. I appreciate anyone pushing back against this ideology but I do feel that KJK seems to be held to a much higher standard than anyone else.

I've said this before. I'm not university educated and don't understand feminist theory. KJK is plain speaking so appeals to me in a way some high profile feminists don't.

I find it tedious how posters on here don't appear to be able to have an open mind to anything other than a very narrow tunnel vision. But I don't go round being rude about it and making it personal. You could always just, y'know, scroll past.

I tried to watch KJK video but she was a bit "stand up and fight!" about it. I found her quite fake and manufactured outrage.

I don't agree with attacking conferences either. Those people are just trying to do their jobs. And she is being click baity.

I think the very crux of this issue is plain speaking @DialSquare

Care to elaborate or am I going to have to AS? Did she do anything in particular or did you just not like her opinions?

I'm not going to discuss her further on this thread as i don't think it's productive. But her view of KJK isn't exactly an impartial one. So Im not sure why you see her as such an apparent authority.

😥

I'll put you on my ignore list in here then until you come up with something worthwhile to discuss. I did find you very reasonable on the Relationship board not so long ago so I know you can do it.

Yes Joody, I think you're right.

TheCountess is holding a Resisting Ideology conference in Dublin next month, with some fantastic speakers. It's been called Terf Glastonbury on TwiX.
Pleased to see that KJK is to be the Keynote Speaker
https://x.com/TheCountessIE/status/1773458249141940511?s=20

Find I can only repeat what I said last night in relation to the usual suspects. Dont encourage them!

The thing about ‘plain speaking’ is that it gets you cancelled - ostracised, sacked, banned from every forum, endlessly attacked and slandered with no right of reply, forced to hold meetings outside in all weathers, even arrested when you are out there.

The alternative is to speak somewhere along the line between ‘partial bollocks’ and ‘total bollocks’ in order to be able to work for an employer and keep your accounts, platforms and friends and be able to work from within.