KJK’s insane rant

[Dontblameitonsunshine]

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who have spoken up have risked their careers. Kjk has become famous and has started a business from LWS. She has benefited way more than any of these doctors.

Her work could be powerful if she just stopped attacking everyone else. But these days she is a demagogue and causes more harm than good by capitalising on vulnerable and timid women and telling them that they need her to speak for them.

Tg indeed

I’m surprised that donations to KJK are even questioned when on Twitter/X (+ other social media) there are transgender people begging for funds for their surgeries. 🙄

I get the incredulity about ‘patrons’ and donating to people’s channels. It’s all a bit weird in these modern times, I find myself struggling to deeply understand why people give money to someone who plays computer games and so on, I am a bit old fashioned in that I am happy to give money to a crowdfunder with a clear aim or to buy an online course, or pay for some other distinct product, but I am not the type to give money to someone for just doing what they do. I believe that I am quite unusual in that and that most people enjoy the feeling of connection with an influencer they get when they give them money.

That’s the thing. With KJK, she is not a charity. She is a personality, a content creator, a campaigner, a designer and a merchant.

I don’t see why anyone would get het up about someone like this not following conditions that registered charities are obliged to meet.

Why not get stressed out by all the influencers out there making money? “Ooh be careful about where your donations are going”. Probably because it would be pointless and futile since this is a business model which works well for an awful lot of people- the influencers, the advertisers and the consumers.

Maybe AR you should start up your own YouTube channel, or the OP.

You know, I'm in a professional role where I'm speaking up publicly and challenging on this. In the work place and on social media.

I'm pretty isolated, I've lost a lot of contacts and influence because of it. My sector is entirely captured.

Because it's my professional role I have to challenge in a professional way. I have to use some language I'd choose not to otherwise and I have to be boundaried in what I say. I have to approach it in a certain way. There are people looking to report me constantly.

I do it though because I think I have to try and there are so many really brave women doing so much more and giving up so much.

And I think: I may be isolated in my sector but there is a network of us supporting each other in many ways working together.

But I'm beginning to rethink that. So many people are now being attacked by others in the same fight. For not doing it exactly right, for not going far enough, for not saying exactly what we should say, for not holding the line.

And it's not just criticism or opinion. It's nasty pile on name calling crap. I've seen it happen over the past few months to Stella, Janice Turner, Andrew Doyle, and now the people who were at the can conference.

The people there are the people on the inside trying to make change.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be critiqued but surely they should also be supported and encouraged. Not name called by the other people fighting this?

I'm beginning to think: I've isolated myself professionally and evidently I'm probably a wrong step away from a social media pile on from the gender critics too, why the fuck am I bothering?

I should just retreat and look after myself here. No one is going to be with me when the vicious mob come. In fact I don't know which side the mob is going to come from.

Time and again on here I've seen the justification for this, as with kjk here: we're not a hive mind, it's only criticism.

It's not just criticism. It goes well beyond that and if there is no sense of mutual support for those of us trying, imperfectly, to do what we can to fight this, then I really think I might be out. At least publicly in my own name.

She got banned for repeatedly breaking talk guidelines and refusing to stick to them.

AKA stating the bleeding obvious.

@MalagaNights that must be difficult, and I think you're brave.

KJK is gonna KJK and that's how she is. I don't read this thread as some kind of pile-on against the medics at the conference. Obviously there's a range of views on the thread, ( and I personally don't have a strong or clear opinion tbf ).

For someone like KJK halfway is no way, that's her take on it. Fair enough, she's her own boss there.

I understand for people like you trying to change from within, it's already a lot of effort and considerable risk. I understand that, you'll get no brickbats from me. Thanks for what you do.

From me too

“Thanks for what you do.”

And from me too. I work in academia, a sphere where speaking up is not an option unless you’ve got the protection of being a Professor or a similar position. I don’t have that and I can’t risk my job so I take off my hat to anyone who speaks up.

For me, I feel really annoyed every time I hear Hannah Barnes use the word “treatment” to describe the barbarism inflicted upon the bodies of the vulnerable. To my ears it would be no different to hearing FGM being referred to as ‘treatment’. It makes me want to chuck my shoe at the radio or TV or whatever.

On the other hand, I didn’t get an exposé of the Tavistock onto Newsnight. So Hannah Barnes has every right to tell me and anyone similar to me to ‘fuck off and do one’.

It’s the way it is. I appreciate everything she has done and I am in awe of the breadth and scope that her professional fence-sitting opened up. Doesn’t stop me wanting to chuck my shoe at the TV when I hear barbaric practices being called ‘treatment’ though.

So it’s possible to be simultaneously appreciative and irritated.

Thanks.
I'm feeling pretty low about it all.

It feels like simultaneously you're doing too much and not enough and alienating everyone.

Professionally it's become very difficult.

And then seeing this conference being described in this way and it dismissed as just reasonable criticism.

Kjk and many of you here have no idea what many of those people at that conference have had to endure and yet persist with for many years. And it's ongoing. The establishment and their profession are still against them. But they set up a conference they've gone public.

But they get called cretins by a high profile person in the same fight and that's just justifiable criticism apparently.

I've been asked to get involved in some very high profile situations in the next few months. I'm seriously thinking: I can take the shit from my colleagues, I've already outed myself there, but I really don't think I can take the potential pile on on here or twitter from the gender critics as well if I don't say just the right thing.

The level of isolation would feel too much to bear.

AFAICR Kellie-Jay got banned as lots of women did for being rude to an evasive webchat politician guest who didn't want to answer questions about women's sex based rights. That was why Barracker changed her name as well, she got a temp ban for "barracking". In KJKs case it was Stella Creasy.

Kjk and many of you here have no idea what many of those people at that conference have had to endure and yet persist with for many years.

I think KJK has a very good idea about having to endure abuse and criticism - she has dedicated her life to this cause and here is a thread calling her work an ‘insane rant’.

This is such an important point. It's all very well people being "purist" and drawing their own lines in the sand. But applying them to all other women (and men) is self defeating.
There's not one way to fight this battle to safeguard children and protect women. It's multi faceted and we desperately need those people inside professions & work places who are respected for their professional skills to be speaking out just as we need feminist activists, those arguing online, in their families and networks.
I am hugely grateful for everyone who dares to speak out at any level - there's a groundswell of voices emerging in society that's finally recognising the unforgivable harm happening to children and that must be nurtured and enabled - not shut down.

She's not working from within a profession.

It's not the same thing.

Not harder. But different.

I think KJK issue is when those who have some power and control give away women’s rights as a ‘compromise’. Some may see this as steps in the right direction but others will see this as embedding the ideology. I have moved from the former to the latter.

I think if she does something totally egregious (no idea what, I'm just spitballing) they will have no choice but to arrest her. So all she has to do is break that law enough times with enough people reporting it and off to the gulag with her.

I can see the worldwide headlines already, on every single platform, probably one of those emergency alarms on our phones will sound too.

Not long to go now.

Plenty of people will report her without her doing anything.

'But they get called cretins by a high profile person in the same fight and that's just justifiable criticism apparently.'

Can you tell us exactly which of the people speaking at the conference she targeted specifically?

While I do appreciate the situation you are in Malaga, I don't believe that your point is really a strong equivalence. It is clear that her criticism is aimed at selected panel members who are clinicians supporting medicalising some children.

This really all comes down to, do you believe that those panel members who are responsible for prescribing hormone treatments who spoke at a conference should be criticised or not?

It feels to me that some posters who do have reasonable points to make are still trying to use a defence that clinicians who prescribe hormone treatments but do recognise that there are major issues and seek to address them should be left uncriticised?

In your own field, Malaga, I would hope that you can speak about the issues and that people who have valid points would raise them to you at the time in a way that will allow you to answer them. I do understand that there is enormous risk involved for you. And you are right. Any person who does put their head up is subject to criticism.

However, if you have read this thread, I would also hope that you see the differences in answers to people who raise valid concerns vs those who are just attacking. Do you honestly think that FWR regulars would attack you the way that the OP and a couple of other people on this thread have openly attacked KJK?

Or are you concerned that you simply wouldn't have supportive posts or reasoned criticisms that would mean you would have to answer them and you are not confident of supporting your answers?

I actually don't expect an answer. And I don't want you to feel that you should discuss your situation at all. I do think though that criticism is always inevitable when you are discussing this issue. If it was targeted at you personally, I too would be concerned in your shoes. Yet, I don't see this video of KJK as being personal and I disagree with some posters that any group of clinicians is above criticism on this topic.

If we're talking about 'vicious mobs' then I think the one that tried to kill KJK in New Zealand was possibly the worst I've seen. So I certainly do think she has an understanding of 'endurance'.

But, it's not a competition. We all have to decide for ourselves where our lines are and our boundaries and what we're willing and able to risk.

It was before the langcleg stuff and she was pretty unpleasant and inflammatory is my recollection of it. Then she refused to say she'd stick within guidelines.

It's all a bit lost in time now but I think she'd already been banned once, then come back for a bit, then got a permaban.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4054359-is-posie-parker-still-banned

SapphosRock on this thread appears to concur - "90% toxic, 10% ninja"

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3377213-Please-MNHQ-overturn-Posie-Parkers-ban?page=18&reply=81347601

MNHQ commented about their reasoning here (just click on the MNHQ have commented on this thread link)

On this thread eresh says she was banned for heckling a webchat with Stella Creasey.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3933568-Posie-Parker-Kellie-Jay?flipped=1&page=1

I can see why people like her straight talking attitude in interviews etc but when she posted here she did not come across that well. And she does seem to struggle to stay friendly with people she works with. I pretty much agree with OP on that

Is that from before or after Saph stopped being a TRA?

I have zero interest in what Sappho thinks about anything.

Thank you for what you do. Fwiw you come across on here as someone who would always be able to speak up professionally and appropriately.

What you are saying about feminist infighting (my words not yours) really resonates with me. It's happening too much at the moment and meanwhile the patriarchy rolls on while feminists are busy snarking at each other.

Oh. Not sure what's happened there. I thought sappho was great. Obviously I missed something.