Does anyone else not care if a 'hate incident' is recorded against them?

[WallaceinAnderland]

For some people it will mean absolutely nothing. Especially older people with no intention of applying for a job.

What does is really matter? They don't tell you so it's not going to worry you. There's no crime so you haven't broken the law. There's no fine, prosecution or imprisonment.

It's a non crime.

Personally I don't mind if it's recorded somewhere that I did not commit a crime.

Obviously people in work who need a clear DBS will be frightened into submission by this law but there must also be lots of us who aren't?

That's bonkers.

I saw on Dennis Kavanagh's TwiX account a comment saying that the SNP have criminalised the entire space time continuum!

I think it does matter - yes. It is a poorly drafted law, allows the state to overreach, and potentially curtails freedom of speech and expression, as the law states that public performances of theatre etc can be considered. As someone who studied Russian and communism, and sees what little freedoms the Chinese and Russians have today, this amount of state intervention and power scares me.

I need an enhanced DBS for work because I work with vulnerable children and adults, including many autistic individuals - safeguarding is of paramount importance and professionals need to be able to speak out. Will this stop people doing so?

I'm voting for a JKR TwiX post at 0.01 on 1st April testing it out!

who/where is it to be recorded? Do the Scottish Police Forces have a central database large enough to recrod details of any sm post, from anywhere in the world, that anyone is offended by? they maust have a huge team of Database Admins? And do they have a centralised one across all forces? And a huge tem of people to handle the constant FOI requests?

I think I might just put note in my calender to remind me to do an annual FOI request to whatever this centralised scottish authority is going to be asking them to send me any hate crimes they currently have recorded under my name and evidence that they havent got any, if not. Plus a a request for evidence to show that anything hey have got recorded about me is held in a GDPr compliant manner.

I'm not sure they have thought through the implications of this properly in term sof data sprawl and management overhead.

A non-criminal hate crime recorded against you (not sure how this works in Scotland) is not shown on a DBS or advanced DBS search.

So personally I couldn't give a toss if someone reports me - I will not be compelled into lying. I'm on team Science and Truth 😉

sorry, anyone in Scotlan is offended by I meant to say.

Do they have to actually be Scottish? Or resident in Scotland. Or do you have to just be in Scotland when you hear the words that you think are hateful?

In which case i've got a meeting in Glasgow in May so I might report one of my neighbours facebook posts because she's a cow and I can't stand her.

They are NOT criminal offences.

A non-criminal hate crime recorded against you (not sure how this works in Scotland) is not shown on a DBS or advanced DBS search.

If this is true, then it's great news. Having a vexatious reporting on your DBS without the right to defend it or even to be told about it, is what will affect people the most imo.

NHCI should be yeeted into the sun.

And yet that is the reality of what this utter shitshow has created. Brilliant way to turn swathes of the population against transpeople.

In and of itself I’d just roll my eyes at the stupidity of it, but I have a very large concern around where is this all going to end? It’s the never ending creep into our lives which I find so worrying and (as a nation) we’re sleep walking our way into it.

In my family, we're all volunteer sports coaches of one sort or another.

Volunteering won't be worth the stress or worry. It would only take one mardy child or teenager.

Too great a risk.

I've never forgotten reading this on MN FWR. I've no idea what is disclosed or recorded where and I've no intention of turning my life upside down for the risk. We all enjoy coaching but it's not worth this level of uncertainty. We don't have social credit systems of the sort commonly attributed to China - yet. But Gove's recent definitions and using intelligence to block meetings etc. means it's not infeasible.

EDBS can show surprising things unless you apply to have items omitted: Driven to suicide as a result of an enhanced DBS certificate – the problem with the disclosure of police intelligence

www.the-record.org.uk/unlock-people-with-convictions/driven-to-suicide-as-a-result-of-an-enhanced-dbs-certificate/

[X] got the job and was told that she would need an enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service check. [She was allowed to start work as long as she applied for it immediately.]

Several weeks later her DBS certificate arrived and on it, disclosed under the ‘additional information’ section was her Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) for a public order offence. [X] had received this whilst she was at university and on a night out with three of her fellow students...[X] had a strange feeling [men they passed] might be undercover police officers so jokingly as she walked past them, she made a pig-like noise.

One of them grabbed [X's] arm and told her that she had committed a public order offence by ‘making a pig-like noise in the vicinity of a police officer.’ They told her that if she accepted a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) and a fine she would avoid having to go to court. Believing that this was her best option, [X] accepted the PND.

[X] thought that was the end of the matter but of course as her enhanced DBS certificate was to show it most certainly was not. When she took the document to her employer, they told her that she’d acted dishonestly in not disclosing the PND and she was instantly dismissed.

You know the rest from the title of the report.

It matters to me. I shoot,.mostly clay pigeons. I have to be whiter than white. Police can deny you a licence for a lot of reasons. Why should I give up my sport because I won't say men in dresses are women?

Not actually true.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/non-crime-hate-incidents-code-of-practice/non-crime-hate-incidents-code-of-practice-on-the-recording-and-retention-of-personal-data-accessible

72. If the record is being considered for disclosure on an enhanced criminal record certificate issued by the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS), the Chief Officer making the decision is required by section 113B of the Police Act 1997 to have regard to guidance issued by the Home Secretary: Statutory Disclosure Guidance. Such information should be disclosed only where the Chief Officer reasonably believes it to be relevant for the purpose for which the certificate is sought and that it ought to be included.

I'll admit to not having done my homework on this utterly unworkable nuttery, but what's this about not even having to live in Scotland for it to affect you?? Does that mean that non-residents can be guilty of the CRIME if committed in Scotland (as I suppose would be the case with any crime) or that mischief-makers can somehow report 'crimes' committed over the border?? Please elucidate!

I don’t make hateful comments or indeed say anything targeting vulnerable groups so I think 99.9% of people will be fine.

Who cares if some retiree wants to be racist or spend the last of their deluded days rattling off against “men” in dresses to their carers? A police officer who might be called in to take a report for a trans person facing DV though? Unacceptable.

I am very worried about extension of government powers but yes a lot of you should be on a list. It’s a tricky one.

Also without reading the thread how do I know this isn’t you guys doing BLM stuff or holding the govt. to account over ableism? Pathetic.

If you can't see the problem with the State recording about allegations about you that require no evidence, are just a feeling in someone else's head, and that you may not even know about, then I don't know what to say to you.

I don't know why we bothered with the Cold War. So many Brits would apparently have been perfectly happy in East Germany.

We’re in 1984, such fucking bullshit

Just to be clear. When I said I don’t care about having one recorded it’s because I don’t need checks for employment. I do not think the notion of NCHI recording is in anyway compatible with the basic tenets of open justice.

I have the privilege of being able to kick up holy hell if I discovered one had been recorded. I appreciate not everyone, by a wide margin, are in that boat!

I wonder if those who are not bothered by ending up on this ridiculous list could repeatedly report themselves for ´hate crimes’ (in the same way as anyone could have themselves in for a real crime)? It would be awfully unfortunate if the system got completely clogged up.

i can also highly recommend https://wildwomynworkshop.com/tag-product/stickers/ which have a tendency to leap out of my gender critical handbag whenever I go to a public loo. Not a hate crime - they don’t just identify as magic they really are!

Wonder how long it will take for Wild Womyn to be reported for causing hurt feelz?

I agree with this. I wonder what people think happened in the DDR because it is very recent history and the ramifications are still rippling through Germany.

This!!!

I too have an unusual name. If you've ever been on the electoral register, you can reasonably easily be found.
I use 192.com to find people when needed. If I can use it, so can the police. And I bet they have better systems.

I now need an enhanced DBS, I cannot now take the chance of saying much of anything about anything. I cant afford to fight this, I've 20 more years of work, and a previous stalker, so frankly don't want my name all over the papers.
So yeah chilling.

Have you seen the other thread about Murdo Fraser MSP? I think it's best if I simply repeat from it an illuminating post from there by@ArabellaScott:
..................................................................................................................................

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/03/scotlands-hate-speech-act-and-abuse-of-process/

'It is a well-established principle in Scots law that anything published on the internet, which can be read in Scotland, is deemed to be published in Scotland. The act of publication is not deemed to be the person actually publishing the item, let us say in Tahiti. The act of publication is deemed to be the reader opening the item on their device in Scotland.
(To emphasise the total illogic of this approach, while it is the person opening it which constitutes the act of publication, it is not the person who opened it who is deemed to have published it but the original creator/publisher. To emphasise the state’s dishonest thinking still more: if however what is being opened is not, say, libel or hate speech but rather illegal pornography, then it is in that case the person who opened it who is deemed to have published it.)
So a person in Tahiti who publishes a tweet which is opened by and offends somebody in Scotland because it offends a protected characteristic, had committed a crimein Scotland, even though they never left their home in Tahiti and may never have been anywhere near Scotland.
I know this sounds completely crazy, but I do assure you it is absolutely true. As kindly confirmed here by the Dean of Faculty.'

https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1768733847171010678

'Scottish law holds that anything on social media which can be read in Scotland is published in Scotland. Clive Thomson was jailed for contempt of court for material he published in France. I have been questioned by police over material I published in Iceland. Those were not for hate crime, but the Scottish Hate Crime and Public Order Act 2021, which has severe implications for freedom of speech, will be enforced from 1 April. The principle that anything that can be read online in Scotland is published in Scotland - which I strongly oppose as ridiculous - is the same as that which fuels the London libel industry. It has nothing to do with residence, which is why you have had Russian oligarchs sue each other in London. I can see nothing in the Act which limits this principle. Therefore any alleged hate against a protected characteristic, published by anybody anywhere in the world, can be reported to Scottish police by someone who read it in Scotland, from 1 April.'

This is confirmed by Roddy Dunlop, Faculty of Dean of Advocates (Scottish legal bod, KC)