They / them at work

[pootlefump]

I've just written a long post and it's disappeared so in brief - how do you deal with staff who are they/them at work? I will really struggle to call a very obvious biological male 'they'. I also can't loose my job and do want to be respectful but also can't change my view on this nonsense !

Most women mind. Most women are also reluctant to admit that they mind.

YouGov survey finds more women don’t want males in their spaces than do. Your friend group is unusual in that respect @WaitingForMojo - and as someone else said, our rights to single sex spaces are no-one else’s to give away.

It means being a human female that got to age 18.

Not a man who pretends to be a woman.

Exactly

‘Passes’ on carefully controlled video, but not in the real world.

it’s not just about height, it’s skull size, wing span, walking gait and many other sexually dimorphic features.

Some young ‘non-binary’ women and transmen decided there should be ‘gender-neutral’ toilets at a venue near me. What happened in reality is these now mixed sexed toilets became male toilets.

These women reverted to the toilets of their sex. This was because the ‘gender neutral’ were smelly with wee on the seats (and the nicer younger men used the single sex toilets but a couple of the middle aged men liked going in there instead of the single sex toilets which theys and I were wary about). The middle aged men stopped going in when the women stopped. It then ended up being the toilet an older men or two went for a long quiet sit down. Those progressive young women, though they would never admit it, have just had a big dose of what actually happens.

@Belichtofalicht
So we have established and agreed on:
public toilets need visibility with no completely enclosed cubicles as these protect everyone who is vulnerable (medical emergencies and assaults).
That mixed sex toilets in this country have to be fully enclosed so there needs to be a single sex option with visibility.
That although you seem to have the ability to know which men who want to ‘live as’ women are harmless you acknowledge that the rest of us cannot distinguish which men (including transwomen) are harmless.

You are almost there. It’s not about trans. It’s about women’s rights to be safe.

Obvs the exogenous testosterone beard thing helps transmen enormously but sexual dimorphism in humans is a real and noticeable thing, even for the male transitioners who have near-unlimited amount of transition resources.

It’s coercively abusive to pretend that traumatised women can’t recognise a human male in a female only space. My rescue lurcher bitch can tell the difference between men and women at about 200 metres!

Yes but that's totally different.

In real life when we see someone standing in front of us our brain registers instantly that that person is a man or a woman just like it's been used to doing since early childhood. Our brains are literally designed to do that.

We don't tend to look at people and think that their sex is undetermined.

On MN my brain tends to make the assumption that all posters are women because they most likely are women, unless of course they say that they're not or there's something in their thread which provides clues that they are not in fact a woman. And the clues tend to come about from the same kind of categorizing, our brains will know for example that women are unlikely to say those things.

Our brains are designed, to categorize quickly and efficiently.

They/them is natural when we don't know the sex, but is completely unnatural when our brain has already registered the sex.

How much does your chance of being attacked go up just for being female? Even before some women want to disregard many other women's needs and let in a sub section of males with whom most of those women have nothing in common.

Gender-neutral toilets don’t work. As it’s quickly worked out that men go in there they become de facto men’s toilets. So a further disadvantage for women.

Nobody said we are props for male fetishes! God, how fearful and dramatic can you get!

This is exactly what I do too- use their name. The they/them thing makes me so confused because its plural, I've been using it my whole life to describe something as more than one person so its not natural for me to use to refer to one person.

In my head I always think of them as one gender or the other, never them. Last time I checked, our thoughts cannot be policed so thats what I do

Saw what you did there

Yes, please back up your assertion. I would like to see sources and links for most women minding.

You seem very naive. Lucky you.

The fear and dehumanisation on their thread is amazing to me.

Trans people are not out to get you.

Trans people are human beings, just like you and your families.

Trans people just want to swap and get on with life.

You have nothing to fear from the overwhelming majority. If a man wants to attack a woman, there are easier routes than falsely pretending to be trans and attacking someone in broad daylight in the toilets where people are coming and going.

Savvy?

I’ve already posted about that.

Yeah, that’s usually how it goes until something happens to you personally that makes it all click into place.

It’s starting to click for a heck of a lot of people though, not because of anything terves say but because transactivism over played it’s hand and more and more people are being personally affected by the negative consequences.

So everyone here has direct personal experience of being assaulted by trans women in women only spaces?

I think that’s unlikely.

Many of us have experiences of having being excluded because we don't feel safe.

What's confusing?

If you say a nice harmless TW can use women's spaces then in effect you say all TW and actually any male can use women's spaces, because there's no realistic way of managing a space that says nice TW can use it but the likes of Isla Bryson or Scarlett Blake can't.

I live in a very hippy place and work in a hippy industry, so maybe I’ve been insulated from the worst of it, but I thought the objections from many women (I don’t like the T word) were about infiltrating sports and gaining rights through self-ID. I agree with all those.

I had no idea it included total dismissal
of trans women, a total ban on them ever using women’s toilets even if fully transitioned, a complete lack of concern if they have nowhere to go to the toilet and have to go to the men’s, looking like bio women, and a complete denial of violence against trans women.

So shocked.

Some of us gave birth to teens with gender dysphoria, some of us have been married to men who transitioned after years of sexualised cross dressing, some of us have fathers who want us to call them mother, other have brothers who stole our clothes, exes who stole our names, daughters who had cosmetic mastectomies and went on to regret it.

Stop being so patronising, we KNOW trans people, why do you think we are so involved with fighting against trans ideology?

No, but we have experience with other negative aspects of trans ideology. See above.