They / them at work

[pootlefump]

I've just written a long post and it's disappeared so in brief - how do you deal with staff who are they/them at work? I will really struggle to call a very obvious biological male 'they'. I also can't loose my job and do want to be respectful but also can't change my view on this nonsense !

Yes, absolutely.

@Belichtofalicht

They can change sex to an extent, although not completely of course, and to trans people it’s a torment to live as the opposite sex to the one they feel they are inside.

Sex cannot be changed. Not even a little bit. Your appearance can be changed, but that does not change your sex. Way upthread, I explained that sex is fixed at conception, that male and female human beings develop along parallel pathways and that it is your sex which determines which sex markers, sex characteristics and sex organs you develop. Not the other way around. Not Build-A-Bear, remember?

If adults want to change their appearance to help their dysphoria, that's their business. I cannot regard them as women and I will not tolerate male people in women's facilities. Everywhere else, fine.

In photographs, maybe not. But the moment someone moves or speaks their sex is immediately obvious.

I can't help what I see, no matter how much society conditions me to be 'polite'. I've been a victim of rape and sexual assault. As a cPTSD sufferer I experience involuntary trauma responses which I cannot control.

Guess that makes my hard-wired, biological responses 'bigotry', huh? Or that I should self-exclude from female-designated spaces until I've 'reframed' my trauma.

I didn’t ask you to. I’ve read your posts and you haven’t.

Some did. Miranda Yardley did. Rose of Dawn did.

They were excoriated by the TRA lobby and called 'truscum' (not my term).

After reading the wholesale denial of even non-nefarious trans people on this thread, I feel sorrier for them than ever. I never dreamed that they were up against this.

The trans extremists have ruined life for ordinary trans people as well as for women on sports teams etc.

Whether or not you can tell the difference after surgical transition (you can, most of the time), they still belong in the men's facilities. Because they are male.

How does one tell nefarious from non-nefarious?

Whether or not you can tell the difference after surgical transition (you can, most of the time), they still belong in the men's facilities. Because they are male.

You can shout prejudice!, trans people exist!, they just want to pee! etc etc etc all you like but this is what it ultimately comes down to.

But using the toilets doesn’t take away funding from people. In the US, college sports scholarships are worth a ton of money, approx $60k a year in some cases, in that people in sports scholarships don’t have to pay tuition. So men competing takes funding away from women.

If an innocent, genuine, post-transition trans woman with a GRC uses the women’s toilets, nothing bad happens.

This is just a terrible thing to say. You object even if they don’t have a penis anymore and are fully transitioned? You STILL think they are 100 percent male and belong in the men’s? And it’s absolutely not true that you can tell most of the time.

I guess you don’t care if some man beats a trans woman up in the male toilets, or kills them.

If an innocent, genuine, post-transition trans woman with a GRC uses the women’s toilets, nothing bad happens.

Honestly, this comment is just fucking ridiculous. You think the risk of being male just disappears because they alter their appearance with a piece of paper you can get for a fiver?

What would be 'bad' to you? Their mere presence may make a woman uncomfortable. Women of a particular religion may feel unable to use that toilet because they are there. They don't have to rape or assault anyone.

This naivety makes me so mad.

Good point.

How do we @Belichtofalicht?

How do you tell the same about any woman using the toilets? You could have been alone in a toilet with Joanna Dennehy for all you knew, before she went to prison.

*This is just a terrible thing to say. You object even if they don’t have a penis anymore and are fully transitioned? You STILL think they are 100 percent male and belong in the men’s? And it’s absolutely not true that you can tell most of the time.

I guess you don’t care if some man beats a trans woman up in the male toilets, or kills them.*

It's FACT. Just because they've removed their penis just makes them a male with no penis. I accept them a transwoman, not a woman.

If they feel at risk in a male toilet that's for them to take up with males, you don't infringe on woman. It's not our problem to solve.

And where are the stats for these attacks? I've processed thousands of police reports, I've yet to process one where a trans person has been attacked/killed as a result of being trans. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't seen one.

You CAN tell.

Ahhh, that old chestnut.

Given the fact that males are overwhelmingly responsible for sexual assaults how do you tell nefarious from non nefarious?

Until the problem of males as a SEX class is dealt with (they commit 98% of the sexual and violence that occur) then ALL males have to stay in their lanes. Deal with that problem first.

This thread is making me sick. Shame on you all for being so nasty about vulnerable people. Your intractable prejudices and denial of the trans people who are NOT doing all the crap that the extremists are and your refusal to give one mm of humanity to people who don’t fit in anywhere and have been through so many struggles is absolutely shocking.

Well off you go then, your naivety and lack of intelligent argument is breathtaking.

Yup. I’m wasting my time anyway. I can’t see a single crack of daylight in your intransigent, relentless prejudice towards some very vulnerable people.

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Please tell me in what way they are vulnerable?
Is advise you step away from TRA TicTok!

@Belichtofalicht
After reading the wholesale denial of even non-nefarious trans people on this thread, I feel sorrier for them than ever. I never dreamed that they were up against this.

What are we denying? We know that not all men are "nefarious". Nevertheless, no male people should be in women's facilities. They should be in the men's.

I guess you don’t care if some man beats a trans woman up in the male toilets, or kills them.
Of course I would care - not that I've ever heard of such an incident happening. Do you have any specific examples?

Do you care if a man claiming to be a woman beats a woman up in the toilets, or kills her?
Quite obviously not, because such assaults happen and you are keen to make it easier by allowing males into female facilities.

Are you going to show us where anybody said they wanted to wipe trans people off the face of the earth? That's a disgusting allegation and you should back it up with proof or retract it.

A trans person may not see themselves as an extremist - but any trans person (and let’s face it we’re talking mainly about male bodied people here) will usually want others to refer to them as she/woman, will want to use female toilets or changing rooms, and will want to access female spaces - because they see themselves as such and therefore don’t believe they should stay away.

At risk of repeating myself, that is reality- it’s not extremism.

Yup. I’m wasting my time anyway. I can’t see a single crack of daylight in your intransigent, relentless prejudice towards some very vulnerable people.

Quelle surprise. I know what's reality and what's not.

320 trans people were killed in the US in 2023. How can anyone say they’re not vulnerable? And that figure doesn’t include ones who were beaten up or lost their jobs or their families, just for being trans.

320 Trans People Killed in 2023