"Spanish Stonewall" suing "Non Normative Trans People"

[WitchyWitcherson]

Saw this post on X from Glinner: https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1767691199794545138

"The Spanish equivalent to Stonewall (FELGTB) has been fuming some days because of those military guys who changed their legal sex to female without doing anything else (and keeping beards, wives, everything!), because they were proving us feminists so right.

So finally FELGTB have decided to sue the military guys (who created an organisation called "Non Normative Trans People" (TNN in its Spanish acronym) for "fraud". But TNN have doubled down and said that they are going to sue FELGTB for transphobia, because no reason has to be given for changing your ID and the law says you can't be questioned."

How transphobic of FELGTB, who are they to gatekeep transness?!

Is this Spain's Isla Bryson moment but with less harm to women (that we know about)

Is Mumsnet making a point with this advertisement?!

Is this Spain's Isla Bryson moment but with less harm to women (that we know about)

I don't think so - I'm not sure how it has been with male prisoners with ROGD (or POGD) in Spain, but i think this is a lot more serious.

Because what it is, in my eyes, is that a bunch of men have decided that enough is enough and that women have too many rights (the pension correction for eg) and they want in. And they have found a law that allows them to do this.

So i don't think it is about SelfID and Inclusive Lawmaking as such - for me it looks more like a means to an end for a bunch of men. And that end is shutting up pesky women for wanting equality. That they are using SelfID laws to achieve that end, is just secondary to them. Although if it fixes a definition of man, woman and trans in Spanish law it will be helpful to other people fighting the SelfID front elsewhere, as an example. I would be very surprised to hear that these Spanish Soldiers care so much about the erosion of women's rights (because of SelfID) that they made this fuss.

In the same way the new law in Scotland, if enough people use it enough (right at the start) might give other governments thinking of introducing similar laws pause for thought. Time will tell on both counts, i think.

FELGTB are accusing TNN of 'the intention of wanting to use the law for a supposed legal benefit that does not correspond to them'.

but that never happens!

I bought some pink socks once to try and stop my two teenage sons pinching my socks all the time. It completely failed. Neither of them identifies as women, and I’ve never identified as a woman. I feel we’ve all failed in some way.

Who would have thought this would happen??????? I'm shocked! Totally shocked!!

Wheels in popcorn maker.

Bugger, where are the electric sockets on mumsnet? Can you all look down the side of your posts and see if there is a plug socket I can use?

I'll be doing salted first.

Can I have some mixed sweet and salty please.

Anyway, if the Spanish Stonewall want to produce a clear definition of "woman" and "man, that will keep out anyone who says they are but aren't, I'm fully behind this.

I think you're right that the soldiers have just worked on self interest. Pointing out the genderwoo is just a fun sideline for them. And whichever way this goes, women will lose - either lose the women-only incentives the soldiers are taking advantage of, or lose the right to have a word for our own sex class. It's most similar to the period officer débâcle - if a man can't have it, we'll scrap it rather than admit we shouldn't have given it to a man. Lose lose for women.

Having said that, the optics on this one are so very enjoyable, Alex mum of 4 calling out the soldiers as not true trans is the icing on the cake for me.

Just want to note that "Non Normative Trans" is perfect too.

Because a huge amount of this nonsense is a bunch of purported queer theory enthusiasts who are really just using it as a weapon - they're super enthusiastic about disrupting other people's norms, but are horrified at the thought of anyone else "queering" theirs. Fully on-target skewering.

Wasn’t there a train company or was it a police force (UK), that offered additional expenses for trans people so they could get extra uniforms, and lo and behold, lots of men suddenly identified as women to get the extra money?
Or would that never happen? 🤔

Coming right up!

Thanks!

Got my comfy chair ready…

🎯

Just imagine how much hurty feelz trouble could have been avoided if Spain had requested a loan of our Layla Moran's SoulVision™ for gazing adoringly upon brave'n'stunning WomanEssence?

I think you're right that the soldiers have just worked on self interest. Pointing out the genderwoo is just a fun sideline for them. And whichever way this goes, women will lose - either lose the women-only incentives the soldiers are taking advantage of, or lose the right to have a word for our own sex class.

agree, it is just a laugh to them but in the end, in the name of equality, female Spanish soldiers (and ex-soldiers) are going to lose out on what i thought was a very good way of bringing them up to where they would have been (financially) if they'd been a man. (wish the british army would do that - we were literally paid less for doing the same job in so many respects. Which reminds me i completely forgot to apply for my pension!)

One of the biggest things that disturbs me about genderwoo (as a 2nd waver) is the adpotion of seriously ridiculously out-dated and unwanted gender stereotypes. Because the likes of Dylan M and IW and so on are wearing dresses (woo) and growing their hair (yee har) but they are not taking on the drudgery of caring roles and so on. They are not walking our fucking walk. It enrages me that someone can work in a bank for 35 years taking all the promotions etc (see also the current thread about how we don't talk about how having DC affects your career) and then decide - POUF! - they are now a woman and LOOK! most senior woman in banking, girls, you just need to work harder i am living proof there is no glass ceiling. yadda yadda. And that is before we get to sex segregated spaces and sport and so on.

and so, in the spirit of The Enemy Of Your Enemy Is Your Friend i will cheer on the Spanish chaps. Right up until the female Spanish soldiers start to be discriminated against again.

I can't find the thread on a Mumsnet search, but was it in Spain where a male with an identity was convicted of transphobia for saying another male was not genuine trans because he had not had surgery? If so, then surely FELGBT are also breaking the law by bringing this suit.

It was in Australia, and many, many male police officers identified as trans or nb so as to claim the extra clothing allowance, etc.
The government is investigating and has issued statements about their disappointment that some people may not be genuine…

We are all non-normative trans in that case, aren't we?

You read mind! !

So, let me get this straight (possibly not the right word in the circs)

One group of male bodied employees have realised they can get additional benefits by IDing as women, so do so.

Other group of male bodied people who enjoy taking their male bodied selves into women's spaces without women's consent are FED UP that group 1 are now using the same arguments they've used to destroy women's single sex spaces to do something slightly less abusive to women.

Meanwhile group 1 didn't stand up for their sisters and mothers and daughters until there was some kind of financial reward for them.

IMO group 2 are definitely more of a threat to women's rights than group 1 and I'd probably back group 1 in a fight, so there is that but still. Would have been nice if group 1 had been paying attention to the Dolatowski types and what women had been saying earlier and didn't do this only when it came to financial reward.

Personally would rather be in the mixed sex (labelled women's) toilets with group 1 than group 2. But can Spanish women please have some basic women's human rights back at some point?

And how will they tell who's genuine? 😆

Obviously the only solution is to have RMW sniffing for Woman Essence, and Layla Moran doing a visual soul check (or fish free oboe check) on each of these fellas stunning and brave lady soldiers?

There was indeed such a thread. I won't link to it because it got tediously derailed, but you've got the gist.

That video is comedy gold though. He's not even trying.

Male grifters complaining about other male grifters. And women are the losers.