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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour Losing women

407 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 07/03/2024 20:20

Despite all the recent WPATH revelations and everythign else we now know Angela Eagle has just tweeted that the next Labour government will:

  • Legislate for a trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban
  • Make anti-LGBT+ hate crime an aggravated offence *Modernise Gender Recognition processes
  • Appoint an international LGBT+ envoy

https://twitter.com/angelaeagle/status/1765795128407388651

https://twitter.com/angelaeagle/status/1765795128407388651

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:04

senua · 08/03/2024 10:03

ForCoralFox at 09:35: I can't believe that you are using that beautiful girl's death to advance your agenda against trans people. It's totally unrelated and very distasteful.

ForCoralFox at 09:51: the girl was murdered for not confirming to gendered expectations/social standards. Which is exactly why so many trans people are murdered.

We can't use the girl as evidence of sex-oppression but we should use her as evidence of gender-oppression? Right, got it.Hmm

I wouldn't have brought her into it at all. It's heartbreaking. But I don't think it showed what the PP thinks it showed.

DrBlackbird · 08/03/2024 10:05

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 09:44

I read the implication as being that this is an example of why sex matters more than gender. I'm sorry if I got that wrong, but you did use the word sex repeatedly.

No, my post had nothing to do with trans people. Let’s just put that debate aside for one moment.

It was a reply to the previous posters’ incredibly offensive and patronising post declaring that women were without ambition and ability if they were concerned about negative impacts on women that arise because of their sex.

SpringLobelia · 08/03/2024 10:05

You are concerned about trans woman [given a name and title] and 'all those with uteruses' [de-humanised, reduced to a body part]

Right. Good on you. Hmm

DrBlackbird · 08/03/2024 10:07

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:04

I wouldn't have brought her into it at all. It's heartbreaking. But I don't think it showed what the PP thinks it showed.

I have no idea what you think her death shows.

Peskysquirrel · 08/03/2024 10:08

senua · 08/03/2024 10:03

ForCoralFox at 09:35: I can't believe that you are using that beautiful girl's death to advance your agenda against trans people. It's totally unrelated and very distasteful.

ForCoralFox at 09:51: the girl was murdered for not confirming to gendered expectations/social standards. Which is exactly why so many trans people are murdered.

We can't use the girl as evidence of sex-oppression but we should use her as evidence of gender-oppression? Right, got it.Hmm

That poster didn't even read the article 🙄

senua · 08/03/2024 10:09

It should not be permissible to claim that any group are a sinister, predatory threat.
Does "any group" include women? Are we allowed to speak for ourselves without being demonised?

borntobequiet · 08/03/2024 10:09

DialSquare · 08/03/2024 09:25

This is what I'll be doing.

Me too.

I’d vote for any decent, honest independent candidate who rejects gender ideology and recognises that both main parties have policies that merit consideration, and would be willing to support that legislation on a case-by-case basis.

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:09

SpringLobelia · 08/03/2024 10:05

You are concerned about trans woman [given a name and title] and 'all those with uteruses' [de-humanised, reduced to a body part]

Right. Good on you. Hmm

No. If you can't get an abortion, and are forced to go through with a pregnancy against you will (or as is now the case in Alabama, are denied the opportunity to become pregnant) that is a problem because you have a uterus, whether you are a woman or a trans man. It does not affect women who don't have uteruses, who are no lesser women as a result of that fact. There is nothing dehumanising about it.

BackToLurk · 08/03/2024 10:10

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 09:51

I didn't click on the link because I find stories like this too upsetting to read. But if the motive was as stated in the headline, the girl was murdered for not confirming to gendered expectations/social standards. Which is exactly why so many trans people are murdered. And therefore highlights why we should stop defining people by their sex and let them just be people.

"Person who claims post about women was really about trans people makes post about women about trans people"

Standard

DrBlackbird · 08/03/2024 10:12

If coralfox must bring gender into it as they’re determined to do, I’d guess that Neha Paswan would not have been able to identify out of being female.

Peskysquirrel · 08/03/2024 10:12

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:09

No. If you can't get an abortion, and are forced to go through with a pregnancy against you will (or as is now the case in Alabama, are denied the opportunity to become pregnant) that is a problem because you have a uterus, whether you are a woman or a trans man. It does not affect women who don't have uteruses, who are no lesser women as a result of that fact. There is nothing dehumanising about it.

And that relates to Labour Losing Women...how?

By all means start a thread about abortion rights in the US. It's shocking.

So desperate are you to paint all on this board as "anti-trans" that you are derailing the thread.

What are the Labour policies you agree with or would like to see that mean women should vote for them? Any thoughts?

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:14

senua · 08/03/2024 10:09

It should not be permissible to claim that any group are a sinister, predatory threat.
Does "any group" include women? Are we allowed to speak for ourselves without being demonised?

There are many, many women in this world denied the opportunity to advocate for themselves, but I don't think that includes those who are gender critical. You dominate the discourse at the moment. Because you are useful to the current government. Most of whom are actually total misogynists. It's certainly ironic.

DrBlackbird · 08/03/2024 10:14

borntobequiet · 08/03/2024 10:09

Me too.

I’d vote for any decent, honest independent candidate who rejects gender ideology and recognises that both main parties have policies that merit consideration, and would be willing to support that legislation on a case-by-case basis.

Absolutely this ^

More decent independents who don’t have to toe the party line would breathe fresh air into our stale politics.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/03/2024 10:21

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 09:51

I didn't click on the link because I find stories like this too upsetting to read. But if the motive was as stated in the headline, the girl was murdered for not confirming to gendered expectations/social standards. Which is exactly why so many trans people are murdered. And therefore highlights why we should stop defining people by their sex and let them just be people.

Now I understand that had a link to a particular murder.

The whole point though is that women and girls are murdered because biologically they are girls.

In the case you cite, the wearing of jeans instead of a skirt does not mean that she was murdered for being like a trans person simply by her non-conformity to expectations though.

It would have been because she would have been seen as ‘modern’ and of loose, Western values sexually. Jeans are seen as being sexy and showing a lot of the body. They would have wanted her to be ‘modest’ then marry as a female virgin, so that the man she married will not have to feel jealous, or worry that a child, which she would carry in her womb as a female, (not a man looking like one) might not be his.

No where is there any real analogy with trans people.

I take your point that people should not have to conform to stereotypes socially expected of them because of the sex they were born. I disagree that not conforming to stereotypes means someone is effectively the equivalent of a trans person - in this news story it is still about the female sex.

Murders of trans people largely take place in the sex trade ( where many women are harmed too). In the U.K. there are very few murders of trans people.

Thousands and thousands of women and girls are murdered every year around the world, and plenty in the U.K. too.

In no way was Dr Blackbird mentioning the murder of women and girls a transphobic remark.

senua · 08/03/2024 10:24

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:14

There are many, many women in this world denied the opportunity to advocate for themselves, but I don't think that includes those who are gender critical. You dominate the discourse at the moment. Because you are useful to the current government. Most of whom are actually total misogynists. It's certainly ironic.

Remind me again: how many times in its 124 years existence has your beloved, non-misogynistic Labour Party elected a female leader?

ArabellaScott · 08/03/2024 10:24

Be good to keep this thread on the topic of Labour and their policies.

Froodwithatowel · 08/03/2024 10:25

Angela Eagle and Labour can stop pretending that any of this 'LGBT+' stuff has anything to do with LGB people, that entire awful wish list is about enabling men with TQ+ identities. That's it. That's all. They are actively supporting a political movement that openly calls homosexuality wrong and wants it ended.

That list of burble could basically translate as 'we'll support the faster and more efficient mutilation and sterilisation of children who will in the majority be Autistic and homosexual, while enabling men to use women and children with absolute sexual freedom, and criminalising anyone who resists'.

The left have lost their minds.

Spendonsend · 08/03/2024 10:26

I like labours policy to create a modern childcare system which i think will help women.
I know it will also help men and also help children but women seem to be disproportionately impacted by the availability and cost of childcare.

I am interested in their idea of having specialist domestic abuse workers in 999 control rooms and specislist rape investigation units but i am not sure how that will play out

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:27

Peskysquirrel · 08/03/2024 10:12

And that relates to Labour Losing Women...how?

By all means start a thread about abortion rights in the US. It's shocking.

So desperate are you to paint all on this board as "anti-trans" that you are derailing the thread.

What are the Labour policies you agree with or would like to see that mean women should vote for them? Any thoughts?

I was simply pointing out why I chose to use the term people with uteruses

Was the PP who posted about a young girl in India derailing the thread too?

I've largely switched off from parliamentary politics the last few years. It's too depressing. I'll hold my nose and vote Labour, because it's always better to have a Labour government than a Tory one, even a bad Labour government. The Tories have never done anything for women, and I personally don't regard the issues people on this forum raise to be women's rights. In my view they are the bugbears of a particular group.

EasternStandard · 08/03/2024 10:29

Froodwithatowel · 08/03/2024 10:25

Angela Eagle and Labour can stop pretending that any of this 'LGBT+' stuff has anything to do with LGB people, that entire awful wish list is about enabling men with TQ+ identities. That's it. That's all. They are actively supporting a political movement that openly calls homosexuality wrong and wants it ended.

That list of burble could basically translate as 'we'll support the faster and more efficient mutilation and sterilisation of children who will in the majority be Autistic and homosexual, while enabling men to use women and children with absolute sexual freedom, and criminalising anyone who resists'.

The left have lost their minds.

This
Well said

People underestimate how angry men are and how much they’ll push the TQ part of policy

Look at the violence, aggression and threats we’re seeing, not just in the UK. Think about why they are responding like this and how far they’ll take it.

There’s a thread on here with someone yelling at Labour on a party zoom event, to which Labour responded similar to that tweet. The person wasn’t LGB or female even, they were male

senua · 08/03/2024 10:29

I am interested in their idea of having specialist domestic abuse workers in 999 control rooms and specialist rape investigation units but i am not sure how that will play out
Indeed. How will it play out if you can't even define women? Or, if you do define women then you get the specialist hate-crime department on your case.

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:31

senua · 08/03/2024 10:24

Remind me again: how many times in its 124 years existence has your beloved, non-misogynistic Labour Party elected a female leader?

I stated in my first post on this thread that I thought Labour were appalling on most things. I cancelled my membership years ago, and will vote for them whilst holding my nose. They are not my beloved Labour Party.

I certainly do not think that having had Thatcher, May and Truss as leaders is anything the Tories should feel proud of.

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:34

ScrollingLeaves · 08/03/2024 10:21

Now I understand that had a link to a particular murder.

The whole point though is that women and girls are murdered because biologically they are girls.

In the case you cite, the wearing of jeans instead of a skirt does not mean that she was murdered for being like a trans person simply by her non-conformity to expectations though.

It would have been because she would have been seen as ‘modern’ and of loose, Western values sexually. Jeans are seen as being sexy and showing a lot of the body. They would have wanted her to be ‘modest’ then marry as a female virgin, so that the man she married will not have to feel jealous, or worry that a child, which she would carry in her womb as a female, (not a man looking like one) might not be his.

No where is there any real analogy with trans people.

I take your point that people should not have to conform to stereotypes socially expected of them because of the sex they were born. I disagree that not conforming to stereotypes means someone is effectively the equivalent of a trans person - in this news story it is still about the female sex.

Murders of trans people largely take place in the sex trade ( where many women are harmed too). In the U.K. there are very few murders of trans people.

Thousands and thousands of women and girls are murdered every year around the world, and plenty in the U.K. too.

In no way was Dr Blackbird mentioning the murder of women and girls a transphobic remark.

I don't think that you are qualified to analyse their motivations, and I also think that your analysis is very simplistic.

Peskysquirrel · 08/03/2024 10:35

Spendonsend · 08/03/2024 10:26

I like labours policy to create a modern childcare system which i think will help women.
I know it will also help men and also help children but women seem to be disproportionately impacted by the availability and cost of childcare.

I am interested in their idea of having specialist domestic abuse workers in 999 control rooms and specislist rape investigation units but i am not sure how that will play out

Yes, the focus on childcare is a sensible policy (ignoring the question of how it will all be funded). The closure of so many Sure Start centres was a big mistake IMO.

ForCoralFox · 08/03/2024 10:37

Spendonsend · 08/03/2024 10:26

I like labours policy to create a modern childcare system which i think will help women.
I know it will also help men and also help children but women seem to be disproportionately impacted by the availability and cost of childcare.

I am interested in their idea of having specialist domestic abuse workers in 999 control rooms and specislist rape investigation units but i am not sure how that will play out

Help for families always helps women. Services, benefits and leave for parents should always be for parents, not mothers, with no expectation that we should be the primary carers.

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