Hollyoaks - well this is creepy!

[Imnobody4]

This is an important conversation to have #Hollyoaks

https://twitter.com/Flashmaggie/status/1765511265076613611?t=DMjXSrOUX7zq5tzRgsRGEA&s=19

She didn't act very relieved at the time but she was a PITA and I was glad to have had a concrete reason to finally extract myself from the friendship.

A real feminist sees women as whole people, equal in every way to men, and doesn't define us by what body parts we have, or as different in some way because of them.

A 'real' feminist sees women as whole people, equal in every way to men, and doesn't define us by what body parts we have, or as different in some way because of them.

Well that's a bit fatuous, what on earth is the point of being a feminist? Men and women are exactly the same? So why not just be a humanist?

Comments like this really demonstrate a mix of naivety, ignorance and perhaps a deep seated dislike of women?
Discrimination against, and hatred of women is based on hostility to those bodily parts and their functions. Pretending that they don't exist denies the whole history of women's oppression including the world wide discrimination currently in evidence today all over the world. I'm not going to list all the countries where the lives of women and girls are currently at risk because of extreme levels of misogyny. Women on here are thoroughly educated about this.
But it is a surprise to see a poster attempting to lecture women on here while displaying such a profound ignorance about the roots of women's oppression. .

To be fair to Fox, this bullshit is what women are being fed. I was a Liberal feminist once upon a time- before the wise and sensible women of FWR handedme my arse encouraged me to question the trite fallacies and contradictions inherent in bullshit feminism. But it does require a willingness and ability to use critical thinking.

It's no surprise really. It's an easy way to derail a thread about the child grooming on Hollyoaks.

"A real feminist sees women as whole people, equal in every way to men, and doesn't define us by what body parts we have, or as different in some way because of them."

Sounds more like someone's egalitarian belief than feminism. And completely misses the reason or the need for female people to be liberated from oppression. Equality 'in every way' is truly not what feminists have fought for, no matter how they have stated it. It is 'equity' not 'equality.'

You have again shown you don't really understand discrimination and oppression.

Yes. This is true. I think that some posters still consider superficial platitudes to be empowering to women and they declare wonderful things like 'equality' without having the critical thinking ability to understand quite what that means and what it doesn't mean.

At least we're no longer talking about that pesky safeguarding anymore though, eh?

I bet there are people who won’t see he is creepy.

A real feminist sees women as whole people, equal in every way to men, and doesn't define us by what body parts we have, or as different in some way because of them.

So the definition of a woman should be based on magic feelings then and not, you know, reality? Or maybe we can go by whether we have a lovely frock on that day. If we are identical in every single way and would never be treated any differently to men because of those differences where would be the need for feminism?

The whole storyline and scene is a safeguarding nightmare and the move to straight away convince a young girl that 'Oh you feel uncomfortable? Better go down a medicalised path that will utterly change your body forever' is just plain wrong.

Oh dear God, that is creepy.

He is a much older man. She is very very young. They are alone. No, a man like this is not allowed to lay so much as a finger on her.

It's not a man, she's not very old, and surely even if it was a man, it would depend on context. I find this whole pathologising of normal human relationships very worrying. Of course, sexual abuse and grooming are huge issues, but that doesn't mean all human relationships should be seen as sinister. And I say that as someone who was touched inappropriately by a male relative as a teenager. (He was later convicted of sex crimes, but not against me.) Doesn't mean that when my partner, brother, father or male friends are affectionate to children I see it as sinister. It is a normal part of life, and children should experience warmth and affection from those around them. I really don't know anyone who lives according to the views and rules on this thread. I'm not talking about in a professional context, I mean in terms of family and friends.

Gaining her trust. Pretending to understand her. Pretending to promote her relationship with her parents. little innocent familiar touches.

This would be the start. There is lots of time. The child will rely on him more and more. The parents will think that as a trans person he will understand their child and be good for her.

The man in fetish get up looks as though he is about 35 at least. The girl looks twelve or thirteen.

And he is grooming by encouraging her to think her real self is a boy.

Can't help but be reminded of Jeffrey Marsh!

You have already shown that you have low sexual boundaries. What part of this male person sliding their hands up and down a child's shoulders, both shoulders, while leaning towards them from behind to talk in their ear is appropriate behaviour?

For what was it? 28 seconds I calculated yesterday?

Do you even stop to think that you could be really very wrong here?

28 seconds of 'warmth and affection' from an adult male.

How lovely of you to slut shame me, especially in the context of me recalling childhood abuse, even if the abuse was less severe than others have experienced. How feminist of you. And what do you know of my sexual boundaries, not that they are relevant to anything?

And by the way having counted the seconds is obsessive.

An equivalent would be an older male affirming an anorexic and asking if she sure she's fat.

Anorexia is an illness but being trans is not, so they are not analogous.

'If you're sure you need a smaller nose/bigger breasts/a bubble butt?'
'I'm so sure'

Teenage girls go through such a lot learning to live in porn culture. Dysmorphia is surely the norm? Its what we're taught. Our bodies are wrong, we must punish ourselves.

I find this whole pathologising of normal human relationships very worrying

That is what paedophiles reason. They really do. They probably even believe it.

Something like one in four women have been sexually abused as children and so have plenty little boys often after grooming.

There will be people on this thread who have either experienced it or have a relative or friend who has.

That scene is not of a normal human relationship.

No one is 'slut shaming' you at all. This is not only your usual straw man, but it is now being used as a claim to victimhood.

I have stated very clearly over a couple of days that you have low boundaries. This is NOT slut shaming you. What do I know of your 'sexual boundaries'? I know that you cannot understand safeguarding red flags and you don't seem to be able to understand grooming.

Counting seconds is obsessive? No. Counting seconds makes it clear that your previous attempts to minimise this contact has been based on falsehood and your lack of actually being able to analyse and interpret the situation.

Your 'it is just a hand on the shoulder' from yesterday, is actually not that at all. It is 28 seconds of a male adult leaning in close from behind a child, talking in their ear while sliding their hands from both shoulders to mid upper arm and back. That is the reality. Not your dismissive take on this action.

Children (a 12 year old in this case) thinking their sex is wrong and that changing it is possible / desirable is mentally vulnerable. This child is being groomed by a self invested adult into believing that their body is flawed, that these are real feelings. He's using emotive language and playing with her feelings.

12 year olds are not emotionally mature enough to make these life changing decisions and the adults around them need to take a calm watchful waiting
approach - not reinforce her flawed thinking. He has an agenda just as predators do.

It may be that the script writers are going to show how self invested adults can negatively affect a mentally vulnerable, unhappy child? Who knows

I already said I experienced (mild) sexual abuse as a teenager. I have several close friends and a family member who experienced grooming and/or serious, prolonged sexual abuse as children. I have worked with children who were sexually abused. Please don't patronise me.